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inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"

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Francesco Barese
inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"
on Mar 14, 2014 at 11:30:13 am

hi

for some reason vegas has been acting up on this particular clip im working on.when i watch it in vegas on the highest preview setting it all looks fine but when i export it it looks horrible.

heres the comparison :
this is a vegas screen cap:


this is rendered video:


it seems like during rendering it cant handle some of the transparencies,shadows etc...looks like the contrast is off too...theres a lot going on in the scene tho'.
-the logo in the center is oscillating from left to right in 3d mode
-the blue sphere is rotating on a 2d plane in the video and gradually changes hue(i made it with 3 different circle designs rotating in opposite directions and at different speeds...im using chroma keyer to get rid of the background...the sphere is in video format)
-the bumpy grey/silver background around the sphere is a 1920x1080 picture that was shrunk down to a circle with cookie cutter and the grey background is another full picture with a hole in the middle(done with cookie cutter but in revers...to simulate a shadow)

i went over all the variables i could think of and a cant seem to pinpoint the problem.i thought the sphere was the main issue but when i removed it from the equation it still looked wrong.the resolutions arent mismatched(it all 1080p material both going in AND out(import/export))

any thoughts?the only thing i can think of is that the rendered video is "more" HD than the vegas preview set to the highest settings but still...more hd should mean more detail,not less


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John Rofrano
Re: inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"
on Mar 14, 2014 at 12:36:43 pm

What encoder and template did you use to render the file?

If you don't have enough detail, you might have to increase your bit-rate. If your video is darker, its because players tend to crush the blacks and blow out the whites on AVC/H.264 encoding because they wrongly assume that your video is using Studio RGB levels when, in fact, it's using Computer RGB levels.

The fix is to use Studio RGB levels before you encode. You can do this by placing the Sony Levels filter on the master video bus with the Computer RGB to Studio RGB preset before you render. This will compress the levels so that when the player expands the levels it looks correct. Then remove it after you render.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Steve Rhoden
Re: inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"
on Mar 14, 2014 at 9:27:06 pm

What are you playing the rendered video in? Could be the player.
Drop it back on the Vegas timeline to see if its really off.

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
http://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia
1-876-461-9019


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John Rofrano
Re: inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"
on Mar 14, 2014 at 10:11:41 pm

[Steve Rhoden] "Drop it back on the Vegas timeline to see if its really off."
Yea, that's a good idea. I bet it's not as dark on the Vegas timeline.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Francesco Barese
Re: inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"
on Mar 15, 2014 at 10:31:01 am

thats a great idea.

the video looks like it should when i put it back in the vegas timeline.so it must be the player.i use VLC but i never had this issue before.i work with a lot of clips with similar shadows and transparencies but they always looked fine both in vegas and vlc.never had any inconsistencies before.

i tried playing the clip in other players(quicktime,media player) but the video looks the same(dark and lacking detail that is).am i missing a codec or something?

i tried upping the bitrate as high as it gets and using "computer to rgb levels" but that didnt work.

i'll post the original video...can you check how it looks on your end?does it look similar to the first screenshot or the second one?

test



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John Rofrano
Re: inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"
on Mar 16, 2014 at 12:01:42 pm

[Francesco Barese] "i work with a lot of clips with similar shadows and transparencies but they always looked fine both in vegas and vlc.never had any inconsistencies before."
What do you think is different? If it worked before then you must have changed something in your workflow or software to cause the difference. Only you can determine this but at least now you know that the video looks the same on the Vegas timeline meaning that Vegas is not part of the problem. It looks really dark for me. You could always lighten it more in Vegas until it comes out the way you want in the players.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Francesco Barese
Re: inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"
on Mar 16, 2014 at 12:46:15 pm

i KINDA figured out what the problem was...the background of the video with the sphere was black.so when i was chroma keying the black out i might have left a little too much of it.but thats the effect i wanted(i wanted it to cast a little shadow).anyway,i tinkered around with the thresholds and reached some kind of compromise.it seems like the left over blackness of the chroma key and the blackness of the cookie cutter overlapped and made it look really dark.

however,thats not really a permanent solution...my main issue here is why is the vegas preview showing me one thing and the render shows another...theres individual fixes for every specific clip youre working on(adjust the darkness,contrast etc.)

but i would like to have the overall peace of mind that what the software is showing me is what im actually going to produce.i work with a lot of HD clips and make 30+ minute videos that take like 10 hours to render...i need to "trust the preview".

i tried the computer to rgb thing you suggested and it didnt work.ive made no changes to my workflow,video formats,rendering options...nothing.

maybe there was inconsistencies before but i just didnt notice cause they werent as severe as in this case?is that a THING?(that previews and actual rendered clips are mismatched)?cause i read on this forum yesterday another fella who was asking a similar question(about RGB and Computer levels)


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John Rofrano
Re: inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"
on Mar 16, 2014 at 12:57:32 pm

[Francesco Barese] "but i would like to have the overall peace of mind that what the software is showing me is what im actually going to produce.i work with a lot of HD clips and make 30+ minute videos that take like 10 hours to render...i need to "trust the preview"."
The "preview" is just the preview. You can never trust it. What you should be using the is Windows Secondary Display function which is meant to show you exactly what the video will look like. It has options to select color space and deinterlace, etc. This even works if you have one physical display. This is the "monitor" you're looking for not the preview window.

You also need to calibrate your physical PC or laptop monitor with a hardware calibrator like the Spyder 4. This is the only way to be able to "trust" the colors and levels you are seeing (although it should look the same on the same monitor even uncalibrated)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Francesco Barese
Re: inconsistencies between "in-vegas preview" and "rendered file"
on Mar 16, 2014 at 6:55:43 pm

thanks,i'll look into that


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