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Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?

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Esteban Elizondo
Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 6:10:19 am

Hi, just bought a new GTX 660ti to replace old GTX570, first app to run is Vegas 12 Pro to test the render, and.... takes longer than previous card... is that normal? Vegas does support GTX 660ti?

Thanks!


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Matt Carlson
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 6:30:08 am

The new Nvidia Keppler cards (i.e. the 600 series) changed their architecture and divided the CUDA cores in to four banks. This change is rumored to be intentional in order to limit performance to specific SDK licensing. The effect of the architecture change for Vegas is this... only the first CUDA bank is recognized. Your 570 had 480 cores. Your 660ti has 1344 cores but Vegas only sees 336 of them which makes it a step down. Once again the rumor is that this was intentional meaning that we will not see a driver update that fixes this as it is not a "problem."


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Esteban Elizondo
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 6:43:09 am

Oh, thanks for the info, and any idea or rumor if Vegas will be compatible with Kepler architecture and work with the 4 banks?
Thanks!


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Graham Bernard
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 7:18:55 am

Matt, that's by far the best, simplest explanation about this situation us nVidia camp-followers have gotten ourselves embroiled with.

I landed on the GTX560ti as a result of listening to others and my PC builder. PLUS I didn't think that the GTX6XXX series was even out back at the time I was specc-ing my present workhorse. And THAT has to have been more luck than judgement on my part.

If you could return the card, do so, and try out the 5XXXti series. If you can't return it . . dunno . . .

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 1:36:58 pm

Wow that is a great explanation and if true, is the most greedy move I've ever seen a hardware manufacturer make at the expense of their customers. I would return the GTX 660Ti and stick with your old card.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Esteban Elizondo
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 2:45:37 pm

OK, so I'll try to back the gtx660ti to the store, and, maybe to still improve old gtx570, gtx 580 or gtx590 should work right? 'cause still 5xx? is that true? to try to change the 660ti for one of those?

Thanks!


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 5:05:04 pm

[Esteban Elizondo] "I'll try to back the gtx660ti to the store, and, maybe to still improve old gtx570, gtx 580 or gtx590 should work right? 'cause still 5xx? is that true? to try to change the 660ti for one of those?"
Why are you even replacing your GTX 570? Is it giving you problems with Vegas Pro?

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Esteban Elizondo
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 6:43:21 pm

Hi, In fact, I can't use CUDA acceleration eneabled in Options, cause Vegas Freezes the video and only audio works, and during render it hangs too, so, read here in this forum that disable CUDA acceleration will fix those problems, and that was the solution, so I wanted to change the card to get more CUDA cores and get CUDA Acceleration enabled in vegas. :(


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 6:51:41 pm

[Esteban Elizondo] "In fact, I can't use CUDA acceleration eneabled in Options"
OK, so you happen to have one of the few GeForce cards that work for most people so I would try and find out why it doesn't work for you instead of buying a new card. Your NVIDIA GTX 570 is the card that Sony benchmarks with on their GPU Acceleration page. That suggests to me that your current GTX 570 should work flawlessly with Vegas Pro 12.0 because that's the card that Sony tests with!

At this point it would be better to start a new thread and ask what drivers people are using for their GTX 570. I would name the thread something like "What drivers for GTX 570 work with Vegas Pro 12.0?" to attract GTX 570 owners (of which I'm not)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Matt Carlson
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 8:56:51 pm

Well I know you are a Quadro user and the new 600 series was about to be an incredible beast. Would you spend 3 times on a Quadro if you can get a "gaming" card that just by the sheer nature of its design made the idea of Quadros obsolete? I agree with you that it is a pretty ballsy move to start such practices with hardware but software has done this for a decade now. It is not like Vegas Platinum took any less resources to make. In fact it takes more resources to repackage and diminish Pro to make Platinum. They can't just reduce their price on Pro to get people to buy (there is sarcasm dripping from that sentence.) The idea that hardware developers are getting in to this practice by crippling performance without even making a show of removing actual hardware such as cache memory etc is troubling.


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 9:25:53 pm

[Matt Carlson] "Well I know you are a Quadro user and the new 600 series was about to be an incredible beast. Would you spend 3 times on a Quadro if you can get a "gaming" card that just by the sheer nature of its design made the idea of Quadros obsolete?"
I would still pay the premium for the Quadro because I'm paying for driver stability, not performance. You pay more for the Quadro because of the drivers, not the hardware although there are some hardware capabilities that the gaming cards don't have.
[Matt Carlson] "The idea that hardware developers are getting in to this practice by crippling performance without even making a show of removing actual hardware such as cache memory etc is troubling."
I was reacting to the fact that the customer paid for the whole video card. Now we find out that existing programs can only use 1/4 of the card making it slower than the previous card. That makes no sense to me and is deceiving to the customer.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Matt Carlson
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 9, 2013 at 9:38:57 pm

"there are some hardware capabilities that the gaming cards don't have"

This was the problem Nvidia ran in to. The versatility of CUDA and the sheer power of the 600 series would be greater than what makes Quadro such a good thing (which I agree is/was a valid market .) The dedicated architecture of workstation cards was going to be eclipsed by the sheer power (even if technically that power was not as efficient.) I am not quite sure why they just don't start making the Quadro series that much better but I am guessing that they don't see the cost benefit of changing that side of the manufacturing process which is the root of the trouble. Their gaming cards are now so good that they have to cripple them. That is just a little bit on the insane side.


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 2:56:48 am

[Matt Carlson] "I am not quite sure why they just don't start making the Quadro series that much better but I am guessing that they don't see the cost benefit of changing that side of the manufacturing process which is the root of the trouble."
They already have made the Quadro series better. That would be the Quadro K5000 which is the Kepler version. So the 600 series is not better than the Quadro, it is the same architecture as the the K5000 Series Quadro.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Esteban Elizondo
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 5:35:12 am

Learned a lot with this post, but, right now I have both cards, old gtx570 again installed on my machine, and gtx660ti packed to return to seller, who can't understand how a newer card doesn't works better, I can't understand either how Vegas can't just make an update and be compatible with newer technology, to work even better, I think is how supposed to be... So, I can keep both, with the hope that 660ti be compatible soon, but what if that is not soon :(


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 1:28:21 pm

[Esteban Elizondo] "I can't understand either how Vegas can't just make an update and be compatible with newer technology, to work even better, I think is how supposed to be..."
That is probably what will happen eventually. It sounds like NVIDIA changed their SDK with the Kepler cards and Sony will have to change Vegas Pro to use the new SDK. It's just a matter of the software catching up with the hardware. It's too bad that the backward compatibility that NVIDIA supplied didn't take advantage of all the CUDA cores that the customer paid for.

Perhaps NVIDIA could have handled this better and had a "Kepler Certified" program to let consumers know that unless your software is "Kepler Certified" it's not going to take advantage of the new card but I guess that would keep people from buying cards and then software manufactures wouldn't see a demand and they wouldn't add the support. Changing architectures is never a smooth transition.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Graham Bernard
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 6:52:47 am

I "feel" very very strongly about this whole SCS<>nVidia embroilment.

A] My card, the GTX560ti now plays nicely with what I am throwing at VEGAS. But it has taken at least a year plus from VP10>VP11>VP12 with a tortuous Holy Grail type search to get near enough to start seeing the value of having VP12 installed. It has been messy and at times a strain on many of the individuals involved - I kid you not!

B] The slippage of getting less with a later/newer Card is beyond me and most probably bit SCS too. John's experience with the QUADRO also bears this out. However, and again, there are "fine" details of suitability of the FX-ing that need too to be taken into account too.

C] I try to make my living from doing video. That includes capturing and editing. I really don't need to be futzing around this way when there should be a clarity from hardware to software warehouse, priory to release to customer.

I'm really tired with the subject. Not with you guys, nor your efforts to find a way through, it's just such a waste of good creativity being poured on this barren road.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 1:44:03 pm

[Graham Bernard] "C] I try to make my living from doing video. That includes capturing and editing. I really don't need to be futzing around this way when there should be a clarity from hardware to software warehouse, priory to release to customer."
I know I've said this before but this is why most professionals buy a Mac. It comes with one or two graphics card choices. Every software manufacturer is using the same two cards that Apple and their customers are using and everything usually works. When your business depends on your tools working correctly, it doesn't matter of you have 100 choices, it only matters if it works!

IMHO, Sony should have published a list of approved/tested cards. You as customers should demand it. This is why I recommend the Quadro 4000/5000 or the GeForce GTX 570 because that's what Sony used in their GPU Acceleration testing. Note, they did not use the GTX 570Ti, just the regular GTX 570. I don't know what difference the "Ti" makes.

Of course the drivers are even more important than the card. Once again this is why the Quadro series is recommended for professionals on the Sony web site. Quadro drivers are tested with and tweaked for professional graphics applications. GeForce drivers are tested with and tweaked for DirectX games. It's a case of using the right tool for the job.

Note what it states on the Sony GPU page in my link:
NVIDIA recommends NVIDIA Quadro for professional applications and recommends use of the latest boards based on the Fermi architecture.
The two important pieces of information in that statement are Quadro and Fermi. That pretty much says that Kepler is not recommended.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Graham Bernard
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 2:26:42 pm

[John Rofrano] "I know I've said this before but this is why most professionals buy a Mac. It comes with one or two graphics card choices. Every software manufacturer is using the same two cards that Apple and their customers are using and everything usually works. When your business depends on your tools working correctly, it doesn't matter of you have 100 choices, it only matters if it works!"
Alright! Therefore SCS should tell us, out in the open, to all of us go buy a MAC then? Yes? Or regard us as NOT being professionals 'cos we don't? Is that it?

[John Rofrano] "IMHO, Sony should have published a list of approved/tested cards."
But surely they have done so by saying the following? Give them credit John, credit where it is due - c'mon . . .

[John Rofrano] "This is why I recommend the Quadro 4000/5000 or the GeForce GTX 570 because that's what Sony used in their GPU Acceleration testing."
So why AREN'T SCS being explicit about this?

[John Rofrano] "Note what it states on the Sony GPU page in my link:

NVIDIA recommends NVIDIA Quadro for professional applications and recommends use of the latest boards based on the Fermi architecture."
So, are SCS telling us explicitly to make this so? By quoting a supplier? Are they saying that this is the way VP12 will ever work properly? That is not explicit. It is a "recommendation" it does not say VP12 wont work, it is wrapped-up in a "recommendation".

I don't know what Kepler, Schmepler, Fermi, Furby means?! I want a known card to SCS; that is known by SCS to work; with the potential for drivers that can handle the simplest of editing and the new features of VP12. And in my book, that is being professional.

IMHO, I also don't believe it is valuable to be quoting one of their suppliers recommendations, when they don't explicitly say so themselves. It leaves a lot of potential inappropriate-card purchasing-decisions being made by us Vegas followers.

Which leaves me with the dull, painful, scary thought as to WHO has been testing the nVidia card Vegas-suitability? Who .. indeed . . ? Penny dropping anywhere . . ?

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 4:05:21 pm

[Graham Bernard] "Alright! Therefore SCS should tell us, out in the open, to all of us go buy a MAC then? Yes? Or regard us as NOT being professionals 'cos we don't? Is that it?"
No, I wasn't saying that you are non-professional by not using a Mac. Not at all. I was using the Mac as an example by saying that the Mac only gives you an option of one or two graphics cards and that's why it works so well. Less choice means less can go wrong. If Sony would tell us the short list of graphics cards to use, we could have the same stability with their software.
[Graham Bernard] "But surely they have done so by saying the following? Give them credit John, credit where it is due - c'mon . . . "
They have not provided a list. They said ANY 4XX or 5XX card will work. It's pretty obvious from the number of people with problematic cards that this is not the case. It's a good start over not saying anything, but it's not saying enough.
[Graham Bernard] "So why AREN'T SCS being explicit about this?"
I don't know. Adobe publishes a list. I don't know why SCS does not. You'd have to ask them.
[Graham Bernard] "So, are SCS telling us explicitly to make this so? By quoting a supplier? Are they saying that this is the way VP12 will ever work properly? That is not explicit. It is a "recommendation" it does not say VP12 wont work, it is wrapped-up in a "recommendation"."
You're right it's not explicit. It's a recommendation. I'd like to see a list so that there is no question.
[Graham Bernard] "I don't know what Kepler, Schmepler, Fermi, Furby means?!"
Kepler was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer.

Schmepler is a "made up" word chosen to resemble Yiddish Slang

Fermi was an Italian theoretical and experimental physicist, best known for his work on the development of the first nuclear reactor, and for his contributions to the development of quantum theory, nuclear and particle physics, and statistical mechanics.

Furby is an electronic robotic toy resembling a hamster or owl-like creature which went through a period of being a "must-have" toy following its launch in the holiday season of 1998, with continual sales until 2000.

Now you know. ;-D lol
[Graham Bernard] "I want a known card to SCS; that is known by SCS to work; with the potential for drivers that can handle the simplest of editing and the new features of VP12. And in my book, that is being professional."
I agree. A list of supported cards is what professionals need to get busy working and stop tinkering with their PC's. Since they use the GeForce GTX 570 in their performance testing, I assume that this is a solid recommendation. I could be wrong but I don't think they would have chosen a card that they didn't test with and benchmark against.
[Graham Bernard] "IMHO, I also don't believe it is valuable to be quoting one of their suppliers recommendations, when they don't explicitly say so themselves. It leaves a lot of potential inappropriate-card purchasing-decisions being made by us Vegas followers."
I agree.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Esteban Elizondo
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 4:44:33 pm

As I said before, I have GTX570, bought that 'cause saw those testing results made by sony and they used that card, but, rendering using Cuda is fast, but previews.... that is a problem,I had to turn OFF CUDA Acceleration for previews using 570 'cause software freezes and hang, in this forum I read in other topic that turn Off GPU ACCELERATION FOR VIDEO PROCESSING is the solution and that's is true, right now I have to turn it off so the software doesn't freeze or hang during preview, so, that's why I made the mistake of buy the new GTX660ti thinking that a new card with new technology and more cudas will let me work with GPU ACCELERATION FOR VIDEO PROCESSING finnaly in ON... and obvioulsy get a better time for render, thing that as I said at the start of this topic... didn't work :( Render is taking more time than before, so, now I have both cards, the seller tells me that he could take back 660ti, but that probably in short time my software will be compatible and take full advantage of the card and I will have to buy it again.. so.. don't know what to do :(


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Mike Kujbida
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 4:49:20 pm

Based purely on what I've read, most users have their RAM preview set to either 200 MB. or 0 MB. and have found that this increases stability a lot.


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 9:40:34 pm

[Esteban Elizondo] " the seller tells me that he could take back 660ti, but that probably in short time my software will be compatible and take full advantage of the card and I will have to buy it again.. so.. don't know what to do :("
You could keep it and wait. That is the most likely scenario that will happen.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Graham Bernard
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 5:30:42 pm

So, John, you agree that SCS have not been explicit.

Thank you.

Graham

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Feb 10, 2013 at 9:42:31 pm

[Graham Bernard] "So, John, you agree that SCS have not been explicit."
Yup, I agree. They have given "guidance" but haven't been explicit enough to say that "this" is the list of supported cards that we "certify" where "certify" means that they actually have the card in-house and have tested with it and it passes their compatibility test.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Red Diamond
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Jan 24, 2014 at 12:11:52 am

This may be late - but it sure explains why MY SVP 12 crashes worse than Win 95. I mean every ten minutes or so!

I am pissed. And my Quadro FX card, now almost three years old has older languages that SVP didn't work well with. I doesn't recognize QFX's CUDA cores. A newer card I tried and other cards sped graphics up better so I thought I would get a NEW card. I could have had the 570 but I thought, newer and bigger is better so I bit the apple. ARRRRGH.


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 12 Pro and GTX 660Ti Compatible?
on Jan 26, 2014 at 12:32:35 pm

[Red Diamond] "A newer card I tried and other cards sped graphics up better so I thought I would get a NEW card. I could have had the 570 but I thought, newer and bigger is better so I bit the apple. ARRRRGH."
Yea, this has really made me think twice about nVidia. I'm thinking that the AMD/ATI cards are probably a better choice for Vegas Pro editors. They have consistently performed well with newer models.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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