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Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost

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Wilfried Van
Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 13, 2019 at 7:11:53 am

Noticed that the later than 307 builds of vegas pro 16 lost their CPU power in editing ( previewing ) . Whilst editing with GPU = OFF , preview stutters and CPU is barely used . All previous builds ( also versions 15 and below ) do use all CPU's and their power for previewing ( and dynamic RAM ) .
We do use 2 identical HP Z820 workstations with 2 x 8 core 3.3GHz and 128 GB RAM , nvidia quadro M5000 . ( 32 cores when hyperthreading active ) .
Did some simple tests with a m2t file ( from SONY camera and captured by vegas ) and just loading that file and previewing with GPU=OFF and compared result in different versions of vegas pro ( 13,14,15, 16build307 and any later 16build ).


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 13, 2019 at 3:40:44 pm

Hi Wilfried,

If I understand you, I can not get the same results. Actually I get somewhat opposite results. My comparison were on the same box, using MVP15 build 416, and MVP16 build 361 (with a short test using SVP13 build 453).

I used a .m2t (HDV) clip from a Canon XL2 captured with SVP13, a DNxHD 220x (UHD) .mov and a ProRes HQ (UHD) .mov, all 29.970 fps for comparison.

I monitored CPU percentage usage with Windows 10 Task Manager.

MVP15 m2t 5.5% CPU 29.970i fps preview quality Best/Full
MVP16 m2t 13.3% CPU 29.970i fps preview quality Best/Full

MVP15 DNxHD UHD 28% CPU 14 fps preview quality Best/Full
MVP16 DNxHD UHD 42% CPU 14 fps preview quality Best/Full

MVP15 DNxHD UHD proxy 28% CPU 29.970 fps preview quality Preview/Full
MVP16 DNxHD UHD proxy 51% CPU 29.970 fps preview quality Preview/Full

MVP15 ProRes UHD proxy 29% CPU 29.970 fps preview quality Preview/Full
MVP16 ProRes UHD proxy 52% CPU 29.970 fps preview quality Preview/Full

There is zero difference between the MVP15 and MVP16 in playback preview fps, and more percentage of the CPU being used by MVP16 build 361 than MVP15 build 416 and SVP13 build 453.

All my project setting were identical for this comparison. The only difference between the three is the plugin used to decode the ProRes HQ UHD, as SVP13 used qt7plug and MVP15/16 use mxhevcplug, however preview playback and CPU percentage used followed the same pattern, no difference in playback, but MVP16/361 using a shown higher percentage of CPU.

Best Regards......George


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Wilfried Van
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 13, 2019 at 4:16:46 pm

Hi George ,

Thank you for your tests and answer .
We will try to find out why vegas pro 16 build 307 previews just fine ( full/best - 32 bit full range ) and uses all CPU cores and lots of RAM while doing so whilst the next builds does not and stutters at 5 frames/sec and does barely use CPU power .
GPU=OFF

the .m2t files are read by compoundplug and are 1440x1080 PAL from old HVR-V1E camera , captured by vegas and due to fact we had to insert some old shootings in a clip .
That's where we noticed this .

Using the sony vegas pro 13 compoundplug in any later vegas pro 16 build 307 version ( temporarily ) , did not help .
Bizar .

At the same time we noticed with any later then 307 build , one has to limit the dynamic RAM size to 200MB when GPU=ON . Otherwise every few minutes " vegas has stopped working " . Previous builds , one could leave the dynamic RAM to , say , 32 GB or so , which has always been our standard setting when GPU=OFF in order to play very smooth and without stutter

Will try some more things . Ah , we are still on win 7 pro


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 13, 2019 at 7:15:20 pm

Hi Wilfried,

Ah, you are working in 32 bit floating point full range, that is a different beast, I was testing in 8 bit.

So my first question, just out of curiosity is....why are you working in 32 bit float point full?

Also, why are you using CPU only?

Secondly, when in 32 bit floating point full range, I get similar results as you, slower preview speeds in MVP16/361 than MVP15. Not by much just a couple fps. However my little system will not run anything in 32 bit floating point full range at full preview speed!

Best Regards......George


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Wilfried Van
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 14, 2019 at 6:18:25 am

Hi George ,

32 bit full video because of better colors in preview which is near to final rendered project .

GPU=OFF because we have some projects with serious FX and bezier masking etc.. and need to run dynamic RAM preview regularly . When GPU=OFF , we can put dynamic RAM to about 32 GB ( out of 128 GB ) , which is still a small amount of the total RAM installed and allows for fast and easy dynamic RAM previews .
Chance of getting ...stopped working .... is minor with GPU=OFF

In the vegas pro 16 later than build 307 , when GPU=ON , one has to put dynamic RAM to an incredible 200 MB or less !! . Otherwise the ....stopped working ...pops up and that message we are very tired to see and does not allow for hours of editing . And even with that 200MB setting it randomly gives that message .

Swapping between GPU ON/OFF requires restart of vegas and altering dynamic RAM value and is everything but Obvious , so we do prefer the less possible chance of ....stopped working ....

The testing was just done to see whether there is improvements in real-time editing and previewing .
Will do some more investigations here

Thanks for your replies


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Wilfried Van
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 14, 2019 at 11:20:02 am

Now the only thing which I can ( visually ) see is that later versions than build 307 have a " Master Display " setting added in project properties and I have absolutely no idea what those settings mean and do ( or don't do ) .
Can't find anything anywhere in this regards.


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Francois Pénzes
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 14, 2019 at 2:33:11 pm

Hi Wilfred

Wanted to add to George's comment. Here are a few good reads. (Also for all other curious souls that wandered here) Understanding how things work make you a better editor. I'm still learning....and don't want to stop.

https://forums.creativecow.net/docs/forums/post.php?forumid=24&postid=98229...

https://www.moviestudiozen.com/doctor-zen-faq/105-what-is-the-difference-be...

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/5234-what-does-pixel-format-8bit-32bit...

Cheers !

PC Win 10 Pro 64-bit 16gb Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz
Cameras: Canon XF305 + Canon XH-A1
Blackmagic HyperDeck Studio Mini
Vegas Pro 16, User since Vegas 3.0

''When the cutting stops, the editing begins...''


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Wilfried Van
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 14, 2019 at 4:59:49 pm

Hi Francois ,

Thank you for your reply .
We are working with vegas pro since version 4 , so this program is not new to us .
We do know the differences between 8 bit and 32 bit in the meanwhile 😉

The question we have is why >vegas pro build 307 all of a sudden can't realtime play m2t files whilst all previous versions with same settings can ( with GPU=OFF , so the quadro M5000 is disabled in all these cases and is irrelevant here ) .
Anyway , we continue in meanwhile with the sony vegas pro 13 for this particular project and will wait what the next vegas pro 16 might ( or not ) do .
In parallel avid media composer will used since our hardware seems to fit that program better


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 14, 2019 at 4:03:40 pm

I think I have reached the outer limits of my shallow knowledge on this subject! Perhaps the Master Display refers to a calibrated color display as it has custom settings, but that is an off the wall guess!! I pecked around a bit and could not find anything about it. There is nothing about it in the Vegas Help, but then Vegas Pro 16 Help has many references which have not been updated since VP15 and certainly anything in a recent build is not going to be there.

My primary NLE is DaVinci Resolve (now on version 16b1) which runs as a default in floating point and 10 bit, much smoother than Vegas, but in Vegas Pro I'm not experiencing the issues you have with Dynamic RAM settings and the program stopping, which could be the difference between your M5000 and my little R9 390, as well as, your project is most likely much larger and more complex than my projects.

The few times I have worked in 32 bit Floating point full range I have set Vegas to 8 bit for the cutting and editing, certain FX's, then switched it over to floating point for the color management/corrections, but again those were more or less experimenting and not a real lengthy projects.

Best Regards......George


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Francois Pénzes
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 14, 2019 at 8:42:16 pm

Hi Wilfred

Like George, I could not reproduce your findings. This is a long shot but, could it be that something went missing when you installed V16 ?

Have you tried uninstalling completely V16 (including registry) and then re-install ? May be worth a try...

Cheers !

P.S.: Please, let us know how it turns out.

PC Win 10 Pro 64-bit 16gb Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz
Cameras: Canon XF305 + Canon XH-A1
Blackmagic HyperDeck Studio Mini
Vegas Pro 16, User since Vegas 3.0

''When the cutting stops, the editing begins...''


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 14, 2019 at 9:33:05 pm

Hi Francois,

Actually I did reproduce his complaint, which was why the latest builds of VP16 when using no GPU acceleration, had a slower playback than previous version when running in 32 bit floating point full range. My system will not run this at full speed in any preview quality, and the difference for me is about 2-3 frames per second slower playback than when using VP15.

The side difference, being the reason Wilfried increases his Dynamic RAM to 32 gb and runs without GPU acceleration is the stoppage issues he has encounter, and this is what I cannot duplicate on my box and VP16 build 361. However, like I stated previously, his projects are mostly much more demanding on resources and much larger than I have.

Best Regards......George


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Francois Pénzes
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 15, 2019 at 8:52:20 pm

Hi George

After reading your last post, I was trying to wrap my head around this since it worked for me and after going thru all of my settings, I noticed that I had accidentally changed the Dynamic RAM Preview max to 128MB. I can now preview in Best(Full) with no stuttering even with some FX applied. Go figure. Wish I could rationalize this...and had found about this a long time ago. I guess that's why everything was working fine for me.

If some tech wizard is reading this, an explanation would be most welcome.

Cheers !

PC Win 10 Pro 64-bit 16gb Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz
Cameras: Canon XF305 + Canon XH-A1
Blackmagic HyperDeck Studio Mini
Vegas Pro 16, User since Vegas 3.0

''When the cutting stops, the editing begins...''


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 15, 2019 at 9:49:27 pm

Francois, are you working in 32 bit floating point full range and getting best/full?

Best Regards......George


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Francois Pénzes
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 18, 2019 at 2:45:32 pm

Hi George

Yes I was at 32 bit Floating Point Full Range.... but.....

I was at colleagues place when I did the testing and he told me 2 days after that he had changed his system to something a bit beefed up after I tried it on my system and couldn't reproduce my previous results. He's running an i9 (4.4Ghz) with NVMe SSDs , plus a hole bunch of crazy over the top stuff.

Seriously thinking of getting one of those !!

Cheers !

PC Win 10 Pro 64-bit 16gb Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz
Cameras: Canon XF305 + Canon XH-A1
Blackmagic HyperDeck Studio Mini
Vegas Pro 16, User since Vegas 3.0

''When the cutting stops, the editing begins...''


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George Dean
Re: Vegas Pro 16 builds later than 307 - CPU power for previewing is lost
on Apr 18, 2019 at 3:02:29 pm

Francois,

That sounds like a beast of a machine. If I were not retired and did not have so many other budget busting activities, I would probably have that or some type of workstation, but for now my little box is doing what I need it to do. Good luck in the future, it would make sense for the workflow you are in to upgrade to something you know will work.

Best Regards......George


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