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Jeff David
Voice over sound varies??
on Jul 31, 2017 at 9:30:55 am

Wow, I recorded some new tracks of voice over and even though I tried to have the same setup as before, i.e. microphone in the same position and everything else the same, the recorded sound does not match. I.e. the new tracks I just recorded are somewhat hollow sounding. Hard to describe the difference but there is a difference in the sound from previous recordings.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Jul 31, 2017 at 10:05:18 am

Sounds like, excuse the pun, that somehow you're recording System. Make sure your Signal flow is the same as your previous sessions.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Jul 31, 2017 at 3:57:46 pm

Signal flow? I assume you mean the volume settings and master bus, preview, and then the volume setting in the panel to the left of the screen that has the red dot that is clicked on to activate the recording button feature?

I always check those items and strive to always set them the same. I also try to have the microphone in the same exact position and record in the same exact location. Although, now that you mention it, I put the master bus down to approx the 42 mark from when it was higher at the 15 mark. I did this cause the previous recordings had static and reduced it down to the 42 mark and left it there when I made my new recordings. It was then that I got the hollow, echoing sound - for lack of a better description.

So then I would assume if it turn the bus up to 15 again - it would sound the same, but it doesn't.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Jul 31, 2017 at 4:00:08 pm

While we are on the topic, what does the "preview" button do in the "master bus"? What level should it be set at? I moved it up and down and there was no difference in the sound???

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Jul 31, 2017 at 4:10:54 pm

The Signal flow is the flow of the Signal, here that is the mic input that you want.

You want to get and keep the Signal to Noise high. I've learnt that noise can come in all sorts of flavours. Here, it's that static you talk of. Having a hollow sound does suggest you've got more Noise to Signal and tried "something".

Can you test something. Unplug your mic, turn your record volume up and record. Play this back and note the levels of the sound you're getting. What does that sound like?

Look, I've spent much time in isolating analogue/digital noise from my sound floor. Oh yes, before I started it was coming in at around -20db, that was really horrid.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Jul 31, 2017 at 4:22:41 pm

The Signal flow is the flow of the Signal, here that is the mic input that you want.

I TRY TO SET EVERYTHING THE SAME. THE ONLY DIFF LAST TIME WAS I SET THE MASTER BUS TO 42 INSTEAD OF 15.
SORRY FOR CAPS JUST DIFFERENTIATING MY WORDS - NOT YELLING.

You want to get and keep the Signal to Noise high.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? NOT SURE WHAT IT MEANS?

I've learnt that noise can come in all sorts of flavours. Here, it's that static you talk of. Having a hollow sound does suggest you've got more Noise to Signal and tried "something".

Can you test something. Unplug your mic, turn your record volume up and record.

ARE YOU SAYING TO RECORD THROUGH THE MIC THAT IS BUILT INTO MY COMPUTER?

I WILL TRY THAT - IF THAT IS WHAT YOU MEAN.

I NORMALLY SET THE VOLUME OF THE MIC TO 75. IS THAT WHERE IT SHOULD BE? I NEVER HAD ANY TRAINING IN SOUND AND JUST TRYING TO FIGURE IT ALL OUT.

Play this back and note the levels of the sound you're getting. What does that sound like?

I'LL LET YOU KNOW LATER WHEN I DO THAT - WHAT HAPPENS.

Look, I've spent much time in isolating analogue/digital noise from my sound floor. Oh yes, before I started it was coming in at around -20db, that was really horrid.

WHEN YOU SAY -20 YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE MASTER BUS? THE THINGY ON THE RIGHT TOP TO THE RIGHT OF "PREVIEW"?

I'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT SET TO 15 OR SO - AND THAT IS WHEN THE PLAYBACK WAS STATICY SO I'VE REDUCED IT TO 42 WHEN I RECORD.

IS IT BETTER TO LEAVE IT AT 42 AND RECORD AT 42 OR TO PUT IT BACK TO 15 AND THEN JUST REDUCE IT TO 42 DURING PLAYBACK? IT SOLVED THE STATIC NOISE ON PLAYBACK WHEN I TURNED IT DOWN TO 42 BUT THATS THE CLIP THAT IS HOLLOW SOUNDING. NOT SURE IF THE BUS IS WHY?

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Jul 31, 2017 at 5:03:14 pm

[Jeff David] "I'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT SET TO 15 OR SO - AND THAT IS WHEN THE PLAYBACK WAS STATICY SO I'VE REDUCED IT TO 42 WHEN I RECORD."
NB: See above you can differentiate by using the QUOTE feature - no need to CAPS me!

OK, you have so much to scramble through to get your head around this audio level stuff that it would be worth your and my sanity to start priming up on some of the requirements to recording sound, even at our levels of expertise.

Essentially I record a signal at around -10db for v/o, and that's on a noise level now somewhere lower than -75db. I can live with that.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 1, 2017 at 1:50:22 am

Thanks but I'm not sure what that all means? I don't understand. Sorry - I have little to zero experience recording.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Lex Ger
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 1, 2017 at 8:05:02 am

reverb? look for your sound properties if it was enabled



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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 2, 2017 at 12:26:25 pm

I went, "control panel, sound, manage audio devices, properties" and clicked on each tab and looked for "reverb" but did not see any reverb option.

I am not sure if that is what you mean but there was no reverb in there that I could find.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Graham Bernard
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 1, 2017 at 9:05:02 am

[Jeff David] "Sorry - I have little to zero experience recording."
Hey guy! no worries, and no need to apologize - that should be my job.

Trying to make this simple is a real hard task, as making it simple<>understandable could make the meaning too weak to be of importance. I've had to learn much of what I need to know and from others who gave me their time here and other Forums - for free too!

OK:

1] Please explain exactly what you do to capture your Voice?

2] What is the environment you do this in? Bedroom? Walled room with hard, audio reflective surfaces?

3] The device you record your voice on?

4] How do you Monitor what you are recording? Headphones? External Speakers? Your Levels Bars in Vegas?

Again, what we need to do is to make the AUDIO difference/level between that which you want the Signal [ your Voice] and that which is the NOISE or interference [ your PC internal boards and circuitry and STATIC]. This is called the RATIO between SIGNAL to NOISE. If we can separate these two elements far enough then the NOISE becomes such a small component that it is acceptable. My setup is about 12 to 1. Meaning that the NOISE element is not only tiny [-75dB], but becomes almost totally swamped by a good healthy SIGNAL [ -6dB].

From the little you're able to tell me, you are increasing your recording levels to a point that the NOISE element is out doing your SIGNAL [ your V/O]. Added to which you are now revealing the STATIC or NOISE. If you are going to move forward with your V/O you need to precisely ascertain just where in the SIGNAL flow you are getting the unwanted sound.

As an attempt by me to try and demonstrate this, I have prepared an AUDIO file which you can hear the laying of a Test Tone over my PC's NOISE floor. A section which allows us to hear my noise floor which I have had to raise 75 times just to HEAR it. Then a section of what my daily noise floor at this -75dB. I've also included a Screen Grab in VP revealing the sections.




And here's the WAV file for you to listen to. D/L the ZIP and open it and play in WMP : 11556_signaltonoiseratio.wav.zip

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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John Rofrano
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 1, 2017 at 12:13:09 pm

Does your computer have a built-in mic?

It could be something as simple as Vegas Pro not using your external mic. The situation you are describing sounds like too much room tone which is prominent in recordings where the mic is not close enough to the source. If you are close to the mic and you're sounding like you are far away, then you must be far away which implies that you are not recording from the mic in front of you but rather from the computer's built-in mic.

Make sure that Vegas Pro is recording from the mic you think it is (you set this up in the Track header). Lightly tap the mic with your finger with the track armed for recording. You should see the meter register the tap. If it doesn't then you might be recording from an alternate source (i.e., perhaps a built-in mic?)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Graham Bernard
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 1, 2017 at 3:02:38 pm

[John Rofrano] "If it doesn't then you might be recording from an alternate source (i.e., perhaps a built-in mic?)"
Getting there very gradually.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 2, 2017 at 12:41:23 pm

Thanks John.
You may be right. The mic was pectoral level, but I was looking up to read off of the teleprompter.
The distance to the mic from my upward turned mouth was 11-12 inches – I measured it.
However, I’ve always had it like that. The other thing is the lines in the voice recording that show how loud the recording is, on older recordings were very small. Not sure what they are called but when looking at the recording of the sound clips yo have two lines that express how loud the sound is. On older recordings – they are very small. On recent recordings, they are very large extending to almost the top.
I am careful each time to set the sound levels at 75% so that is always uniform. Very odd. The set up is all the same except maybe last time the issue is I had the mic turned sideways. Although I don’t think that is the first time I had it that way. This sound stuff is extremely tricky and baffling.
I am positive I am not recording from the internal computer mic, as – thanks to your teaching I ALWAYS go into, “options, preferences, audio device” and make sure that the ATT20 that you advised me on – is the recording device. However, thanks for the great tip about tapping the mic to make sure!
Could it have anything to do with, “AUDIO DEVICE TYPE”??? I always leave that at, “Windows classic wave driver” cause I am clueless as to what the other options mean. Of course, I am also clueless as to what, “Windows classic wave driver” means too. Maybe that got switched? Baffling. I can see there Is a lot to know.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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John Rofrano
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 3, 2017 at 11:11:51 pm

Try placing the mic in front of you pointed toward your mouth but off-camera. You may have to change the camera position to accommodate but having the mic off axis is definitely the problem. The AT2020 uses a Cardioid/Polar pattern which has great rear and side rejection, favoring right in front.

If you want a mic to use with video, I would get a shotgun for off-camera or an omnidirectional lavaliere mic to be worn on your shirt. While the AT2020 is killer for VO, the assumption is that you are up close to the mic while recording.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 4, 2017 at 12:43:44 am

Awesome diagram and info! I love it!

Yup - I was under the mistaken impression that you only had to be, "somewhat" near the mic and that it didn't matter if I had it sideways. Now I know that was wrong to assume that.

Yes - I need to get a diff mic for when recording simultaneous video but I can prob make the current mic work by repositioning the mic stand.

Thanks!

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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John Rofrano
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 4, 2017 at 3:33:27 pm

[Jeff David] "Yup - I was under the mistaken impression that you only had to be, "somewhat" near the mic and that it didn't matter if I had it sideways. Now I know that was wrong to assume that. "
It depends on the mic and it's polar pattern. The AT2020 is a Cardioid which is more sensitive in the front than the sides or the back. An Omnidirectional mic has a circular polar pattern, in which case your statement would be true... you only need to be somewhere around an omnidirectional mic but the mic still needs to be fairly close to the source.

It's important to understand that different polar patters behave differently (omnidirectional, cardioid, hypercardioid, shotgun):



This is a good article for amateur recording that explains the differences in microphones: Amateur Recording Part 7. Microphones

As you can see from the image above, a shotgun mic gives you a narrow and longer throw in the front so that it can be further away from the source and thus out of the camera's view. Usually you can place a shotgun mic above and pointing down toward the talent from about 2 - 3 feet away and get a good recording.

The other deciding factor is dynamic vs condenser mics. Dynamic mics are less sensitive than condenser mics so you need to be closer to them. This is independent of their polar pattern.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 4, 2017 at 7:50:18 pm

Awesome John! Good stuff!

I knew there were different types of mics with diff patterns but got lazy and wasn't taking the pattern on the ATT20 into consideration. Good wake-up call that I need to pay more attention.

I had to send my camcorder out for repair but I'll be finishing the voice over when I get the camera back. I should be able to position the mic in the proper location so I'm close enough and it's not seen in the camera.

In the future, I will get the shotgun or lavalier mic.

Thanks for the link on recording!

I wasn't able to work on my project for 3 months due to work commitments. I started this project 5 years ago w zero experience. I had no idea it would take this long but as I say, there were many points where I had no time to work on it for long periods.

I'm hoping to finish it in the near future. I'll make sure to send you a copy and list you in the credits!

Thanks!

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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John Rofrano
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 5, 2017 at 3:36:07 pm

You're welcome Jeff... Good luck on your project!

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 15, 2017 at 9:54:17 pm

I bought the 3.0 usb drive John. Hopefully that will help. I'm transferring all of my clips over now. I can still keep the Seagate drive as triple back-up as that has all of my clips on it for the entire project. Of course, I won't have it plugged in I'll just store it in a safe place. Thanks.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 2, 2017 at 12:45:19 pm

Maybe 11 inches is too far away. Although on other recordings I was that far away.
Interestingly enough, the sound waves were very small on the older recordings and are very large on the last recording yet the mic was the same distance.

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 2, 2017 at 12:19:56 pm

Perhaps the diff in sound was caused by the fact that although everything else was set up exactly the same, I had the mic sideways instead of straight up and down.
I put it like that so it would not be seen in the video footage. I won’t put it sideways again and see how it sounds.

To capture my voice, I connect ATT20 USB mic.
I make sure to check that that is the mic that is being recorded through via “options, preferences, audio device.
I check that the ATT30usb is the specified recording device by, “control panel, hardware, and sound, manage audio devices” and check the level.
I set the level to 75 – is that where I should set it?
I stand up while recording and have uh – not sure what you call it but a lamp like thingy what extends etc. the mic is on that.
I am video taping myself while recording through the ATT20
The mic is about the level of my pectorals – so it won’t be seen in the video.
The buss thingy in the upper right-hand corner of Sony Movie studio is usually one quarter from the top although I notice that produces static on playback so I reduced it to 25% from the bottom and that reduces the static.
I am not sure if I should just set it there while recording instead of having it 25% down from the peak setting and then reduce it on playback.

Environment is my living room. Of course the windows are closed and no tv or anything is on except the computer. There are no external sound sources that can be heard.

Device used to record voice on? I record to my computer hard drive via Sony Movie Studio Platinum 13.

How do I monitor? – I don’t – I am looking at my teleprompter and trying to not sound while I am reading while I am doing the voice over so I’m not looking anywhere else.
I only look at the level bars in Sony Movie Studio upon playback.
It’s only occasionally that I get the static most times it’s clear as a bell.
Thanks for all of your help!

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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Steve King
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 16, 2017 at 4:01:49 pm

Just a couple of points to add to John's and Old Smokes good advice: You can place your microphone sideways just as long as the front face of the mic is pointing at the sound source, your mouth in this case. As the mic is moved farther away from the sound source the the ratio of the sound of your voice and the other sound sources in the room, the computer fans for instance changes. Farther away, more room sound compared to voice sound. Not good. In your case eleven inches should be fine if the mic is correctly pointed at your mouth. Here's another issue: having the mic low and looking up at your mouth will result in a different sound than having the mic high and looking down...more chest sound in the former and less in the latter. The difference is often not much but usually is enough that recordings made both ways are noticeably different, when edited together. About John's point of dynamic mics being less sensitive than condenser mics, that is true and all settings being equal using a dynamic mic will result in a lower level recording. That can be corrected by increasing the amplification; however, microphone preamplifiers in computers are not very high quality. Among other deficiencies computer mic preamps generate self-noise; the more gain you use the more that self noise will be amplified along with the desired signal from the microphone. Therefore, it is desirable to use condenser mics because of their higher output. To get back to your specific problem, if you are experiencing a difference in sound quality between two recordings something changed: settings in Vegas, mic distance, mic placement, or how you used your voice. Here's one more tip. You can use a microphone's directional pattern not only to focus on the sound source, your voice for instance, but also to reduce unwanted sound in the room by orienting the back of the microphone in the case of a cardioid toward the unwanted sound. Not too long ago I decided to simplify my editing/recording room. I had placed the computer in a closet about 10 feet away from my desk, which meant longer monitor cables, USB lines, etc. Very quiet, but very inconvenient. I moved the computer to under my desk. That changed the noise lever in my voice recordings. However, by reorienting my Sennheiser 416 shotgun mic a little I was able to use the mic's direction characteristics to reject much of the CPU fan noise, enough so that the result is acceptable for the work I now do. Hope this helps.

Steve K
Full time writer/director
Pt. Time Video Editor


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Jeff David
Re: Voice over sound varies??
on Aug 18, 2017 at 1:41:32 am

Thanks!

Lenovo quad core i7 16gb of ram, Windows 8.1 MS 13 64 bit Thumbnail is view out of the Olde North Church window where the signal lanterns were hung, as in, "1 if by land 2 if by sea" looking across the Charles River to the Charlestown Naval Yard where rebels awaited the signal April 18th, 1775.


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