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jumpy footage

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Ross Stark
jumpy footage
on Jul 24, 2017 at 4:30:31 am
Last Edited By Ross Stark on Jul 24, 2017 at 4:54:15 am

Editing in Vegas 13

Three camera event. All three cameras are Canon HF G10s. Relevant settings were: manual exposure, dynamic IS, 1920x1080, 60i.

There seems to be a sympathetic jump in the footage that corresponds with bass frequencies in the music. The wide shot is more affected, or at least more obvious, than the other two cameras that we use for closer shots. All three cameras located on the same wooden platform. A RODE video mic is attached to the top of the wide shot. Small pieces of foam are under the tripod legs to reduce sympathetic bounce from people walking.

I've filmed the same event with the same cameras at the same location for 3 years now. This is the first time I've experienced this. I THINK I used to shoot in 30p instead of 60i. Outside of that, I can't think of any other variable changes.

Thoughts?


link to an example: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2SPxtIbEnKJR3FMN09McGRMYTA/view?usp=shari...


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Ross Stark
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 24, 2017 at 6:00:07 am

Here's another/better example: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2SPxtIbEnKJMjBIVVF3ZGlqUTQ/view?usp=shari...


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Graham Bernard
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 24, 2017 at 8:59:19 am

Ross, that's real nasty! I have TWIXTOR and Mercalli and I'm trying to think of a remedy. Ugh..... I can stick it through my system to ascertain if there is anything remedial that could be done. You interested?

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Graham Bernard
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 24, 2017 at 9:09:00 am

Y'know, if I didn't know any better, I'd say there's some CMOS, Jello-ing effect coming into play.

Nice conundrum to deconstruct. If I was an AVISYNTH Guru, and I'm not, I bet there's a Virtuldub 'filter' that could be employed.

We've been fortunate to have had the presence of John Meyer on this and other boards that is the go to guy on film restoration using tools that his results are simply amazing 😉

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Graham Bernard
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 24, 2017 at 9:51:47 am

NAh . . That didn't work. Sorry.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 24, 2017 at 10:39:28 am

Hi Ross

This will not help you now - but always turn off dynamic is with the camera on a tripod !

Best,
Ole


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Ross Stark
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 25, 2017 at 6:27:24 pm

Thanks for all the input.

Is "CMOS, Jello-ing effect" a real thing? If so, how do I avoid it?

I've never heard of disabling the dynamic IS while on a tripod. Why is that?


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Graham Bernard
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 25, 2017 at 7:29:09 pm

[Ross Stark] "Is "CMOS, Jello-ing effect" a real thing? If so, how do I avoid it?"
As I said, it looks like it, not that it actually is.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 25, 2017 at 7:37:08 pm

"I've never heard of disabling the dynamic IS while on a tripod. Why is that?"

If you mount the camera on a tripod (or similar stable platform) without cutting the IS,
you risk creating what’s called a feedback loop, in which the camera’s IS system essentially
detects its own vibrations and starts moving around, even when the rest of the camera is completely still.
This introduces motion objects to your camera system and brings with it blurriness. This is one of the key
reasons to turn off image stabilization.

Also if you read the manual for your Canon camera - set Dynamic IS it to OFF !



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Ross Stark
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 25, 2017 at 8:37:06 pm

Thank you!

As always, you guys deliver.

-Ross


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Eric Clinch
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 25, 2017 at 11:17:17 pm

I've a Canon HFG10 and I never turn stabilisation off and I haven't experienced any problems. On a windy day on full telephoto my medium weight tripod is far from steady and the image can be seen to be juddering with the wind. OIS helps reduce that.

The only problem I've had with OIS is the sometimes darkening of corners when hand holding in breezy conditions as the OIS tries to keep the image steady.


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Eric Clinch
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 26, 2017 at 4:05:03 am

I've been researching more into the 'should OIS be on or off on a tripod' question.

Most of the comments around the net relate to still camera shooting where the need for stabilisation is different to video. The need with stills is to freeze any camera movement at the instance the shutter 'fires'. With video, shots are continuously being taken and our need is to keep the subject continuously steady in the frame. Both my current Canon and previous Panasonic tape camera recommended switching OIS off when using a tripod. But my own tests have given no image difference between On and Off. Most of my tripod work is closeups but I've just carefully studied a recent video I made of local scenes using a tripod for many of the shots. Looking at the image edge on my TV for signs of movement I detect none other then when my tripod was clearly being buffeted by wind. Had I had OIS off I expect the movement caused by wind may have been worse. So I'm keeping mine on.

This doesn't help the OP. I wonder whether the jumps are caused by tripod movement resulting from vibration. Mention is made of wooden floors and bass frequencies. Possibly there may have been jumps whether OIS was on or off. Only comparison tests under similar circumstances will show which was better - OIS on or off.


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Francois Pénzes
Re: jumpy footage
on Jul 29, 2017 at 10:37:13 pm

Hi Ross

Eric C. is on to something here.

I've analyzed your second clip and the jitters match the bass in the auditorium.

I would try to find a similar environment and do some test record using different settings. Stab. on, stab. off, etc... in order to find the optimum setting for your camera.

If possible, send me a link to your original footage. (Dropbox, etc...) A 20 sec. clip will do. I'll see if I can help you save that footage.

Cheers !

PC Win 10 Pro 64-bit 16gb Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 550 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF305 + Canon XH-A1

''When the cutting stops, the editing begins...''


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