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SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance

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Matthew Jeschke
SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 4:15:48 am

I have a decent editing machine. And Sony Vegas Pro 14. I'm trying to edit clips from my DJI Phantom 4 Pro captured in 4k 30fps h.265. The clips play perfectly find in Windows Media Player... However, they barely play if I try to JUST preview them in Sony Vegas Pro 14. My Machine isn't a slouch either...

M.2 Samsung 512mb main drive
1TB Samsung Capture Scratch Drive (clips on here)
Intel i7-5930k Processor
64gb ram
Radeon RX480

I'd think Vegas would at least play back the clips okay? Is there some setting that's wrong? I have vegas configured for:

32GB Dynamic Ram Preview
12 maximum render threads (2x the number of CPU cores).

Any tips? I'm assuming SVP uses it's own encoder / decoder for h.265? Is there a way to upgrade / update it... I'm guessing it's running CPU only and not utilizing the GPU but just a guess.

Any tips greatly appreciated. Hardly plays in even draft preview mode.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Graham Bernard
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 4:46:53 am

You raise an interesting, my word, conundrum: Media that can be played in a Media Previewer should also be Preview-enabled within an NLE. Am I correct?

Can you access "other" media that plays in your Media Player and VP14? I'm guessing you can. But let's check it anyway.

Can you supply information about that Media? Use the MediaInfo s/w and report back here.

My guess is that VP14 is choking on that Media because of a CODEC mismatch and/or bitrates are too high for the VP Project Settings and the Media Player isn't. Trying to confirm any of this will require you to do some more dectective work so we could possibly assist you.

Interesting.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 6:02:09 am

I see several data points you need me to collect to troubleshoot. Let me know if I got what you mentioned. Thanks a million for the help.

Quite note, the entire timeline lags even if I have lower quality videos, that normally play well in a timeline (e.g. h.264 1080p). It doesn't matter where I playback from, a point in the timeline with lower quality clip or the h.265 clip. Also the project renders fine... It's just timeline playback that suffers.

1. Project Settings


2. Information on Media


--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Graham Bernard
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 6:07:21 am

Try matching your Vegas Project Settings to the Media.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 6:38:58 am

I already tried that. It had no effect... when i started the project i told it to match the project settings to that clip. I later reduced the project resolution :/

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Graham Bernard
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 6:48:21 am

OK, now the 32-bit Floating point. Is there a reason you have that selected?

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Graham Bernard
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 7:19:44 am

Woah! Nice piece of kit there.

https://www.dji.com/phantom-4-pro/info

There are MANY formats. Here's your options for H.265

H.265
C4K:4096×2160 24/25/30p @100Mbps
4K:3840×2160 24/25/30p @100Mbps
2.7K:2720×1530 24/25/30p @65Mbps
2.7K:2720×1530 48/50/60p @80Mbps
FHD:1920×1080 24/25/30p @50Mbps
FHD:1920×1080 48/50/60p @65Mbps
FHD:1920×1080 120p @100Mbps
HD:1280×720 24/25/30p @25Mbps
HD:1280×720 48/50/60p @35Mbps
HD:1280×720 120p @60Mbps

Can you tell us what Bit Depth you have captured in? - You can see this in MediaInfo SHEET or TREE view.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Graham Bernard
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 7:21:34 am

If you haven't already, try disengaging GPU Acceleration.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Graham Bernard
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 7:18:22 am

Woah! Nice piece of kit there.

https://www.dji.com/phantom-4-pro/info

There are MANY formats. Here's your options for H.265

H.265
C4K:4096×2160 24/25/30p @100Mbps
4K:3840×2160 24/25/30p @100Mbps
2.7K:2720×1530 24/25/30p @65Mbps
2.7K:2720×1530 48/50/60p @80Mbps
FHD:1920×1080 24/25/30p @50Mbps
FHD:1920×1080 48/50/60p @65Mbps
FHD:1920×1080 120p @100Mbps
HD:1280×720 24/25/30p @25Mbps
HD:1280×720 48/50/60p @35Mbps
HD:1280×720 120p @60Mbps

Can you tell us what Bit Depth you have captured in? - You can see this in MediaInfo SHEET or TREE view.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 8:31:23 am

Maybe Vegas pro 14 don't like dji phantom h.265 mp4 - try with mov !


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 5:08:16 pm

Thanks for the help and things to test. Didn't seem to have much of an effect. Here's what I got:

1. 32-bit floating point: Tried with 32-bit video levels & 8 bit. No performance difference for either
2. Bit depth captured in:8-bits
3. GPU Acceleration OFF: I turned it off. All the non h.265 clips suffer, but h.265 clips play about the same. My theory is the encoder / decoder for SVP is not utilising the GPU.... Why I have no idea ☹
4. Try with MOV files: I have captured everything in MOV container. Will test MP4 when I get a chance.

I'm considering trans coding the h.265 to perhaps ProRes or NDxHD. Is this a good idea? What would be another container they could be put in that wouldn't throw out quality?

Of course I'd rather just fix SVP if I can :(

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on May 31, 2017 at 11:33:16 pm

I just finished trying a MP4 container for h.265. Vegas won't allow me to add the clip to the timeline.

I have a theory but unsure how to fix / test. I had VLC player on my editing machine. VLC player will not play h.265 it has the same issue as vegas. I was woundering if Vegas is using the VLC decoder to run timeline playback. I uninstalled VLC player but not sure if it removed the codecs.

How does one know what codecs / DLL(s) vegas is pulling from ?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Graham Bernard
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on Jun 1, 2017 at 5:17:42 am
Last Edited By Graham Bernard on Jun 1, 2017 at 5:23:21 am

[Matthew Jeschke] " I was woundering if Vegas is using the VLC decoder to run timeline playback. I uninstalled VLC player but not sure if it removed the codecs.

How does one know what codecs / DLL(s) vegas is pulling from ?"
Supported formats
Import
4K XAVC S, 4K XAVC, XDCAM EX, XDCAM Optical, DV, HDV, AVCHD, NXCAM, MOV, MP4, WMV, MPEG-1/2/4, H.264/AVC, H.265/HEVC, WAV, FLAC, AAC, MP3, OGG, WMA, Surround Sound/5.1, BMP, PNG, JPEG, TIFF, OpenEXR-, DPX- and WDP image sequences

Export
DVD, Blu-ray Disc, AVCHD Disc, (DV-)AVI, MJPEG, MXF, MOV, WMV, XAVC, XAVC S, MPEG-1/2/4, H.264/AVC, H.265/HEVC, WAV, MP3, BMP, PNG, JPEG, TIFF, OpenEXR- , DPX- and WDP image sequences

As to your theory viz VLC being used by VP - not so much! - Read on and weep....

From reading widely on the OFFICIAL MAGIX VegasPro site, regarding the niceties of this specific H.265 it appears that the DJI drone output for H256 has a CODEC identifier within the File Header that is NOT recognised in VP, namely, here in BOLD:
Codec ID : avc1 (avc1/isom)
If you go to the more detailed sheets/displays in MediaInfo you should spot it. There are HEXADECIMAL hacks for this and as such is waaaay beyond my competence. Mostly I have a self-enforced embargo on anything that is more than just "User-Usability". IMO this is far more fundamental than either of us contemplated.

You'd have to determine directly from DJI just what the feature-rich option that comes with this in the Header. I'm sure they will be helpful. Maybe it's an iThang?

Here, if you haven't read it already is one of the many, many places that has highlighted this Header issue
https://forum.dji.com/thread-75719-1-1.html
https://forum.dji.com/thread-88330-1-1.html
So, what will you decide to do? Get funky with the HexDec VooDoo? Transcode? Capture in a VP friendly format? - Word to and from the wise: Any new piece of kit, I obtain or capture myself Media, I then trial it through Vegas Pro before laying down the plastic!

And yes, I'm still awfully jealous of your piece of kit!

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on Jun 2, 2017 at 5:59:36 am

I think we may have arrived at similar points. I read something where premiere will not handle a lens profile in the metadata and was throwing premiere for loop too. I am not shy to dive into editing the metadata ☺ thanks for that post i will give it a whirl.

Worse comes to worse i will shoot in h.264. I know that works fine.

Thx btw p4p is highly rec9mmended :)

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Yevgeniy Pakkel
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on Jun 2, 2017 at 6:44:36 am

Hi, i am also having problems playing back Samsung NX1 h265 files, and wondering and wanna beg for someones help.

i have I7 5820k at 4.2 gtx 1080 and xeon 22 cores/44 threats at 2.6 and as well as gtx 980ti and both machines cant playback smoothly. Im at 29.97 fps 99% of the time but it stutters every 2 seconds or so to like 25fps and then back to 29.97 but in reality it completely stutters and freezes for a maybe 5-10 frames and then its back to smooth for another 1-3 seconds

Anyone dealing with NX1 files can shine some light for me please?

Thank you!


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on Jun 2, 2017 at 8:18:05 pm

Tech support at Magix is assisting. Hopefully we can get it figured out.

I tested various h.265 clips downloaded from the web. Seems issue is not isolated to a few cameras / metadata... but rather the h.265 decoder itself as all clips behaved similarly in vegas.

I also contacted DJI to see if they updated their metadata and or h.265 encoder. They have not.

Will keep you apprised of what I find out.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on Jun 25, 2017 at 6:52:58 pm

After several weeks of emailing back and forth with Magixs I have given up. Their suggestion was to use Proxies ☹

My final question was, do you have any hardware you have tested that works with h.265. I am still awaiting response on that message. My thinking is the decoder for Vegas Pro h.265 remains to be optimized.

I see Premier Pro has support and am reading good things about it. Hate to switch though as I have thousands invested in software packages for a Vegas workflow.

Anybody else have luck with Vegas h.265 performance?

On another note, I don't know why none of these NLE's have a proxy setup where you can simply click render from proxies folder or render from originals when creating your final output.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Aaron Star
Re: SVP14 H.265 Very Poor Performance Performance
on Jun 26, 2017 at 12:10:24 pm

From the AMD marketing materials on the RX480:

"The Radeon RX series features accelerated H.265 encoding and decoding, enabling ..."

This means that media player would utilize onboard GPU playback through the video drivers.

Vegas's software video engine does not work that way. Vegas decompresses the h.265 video to RGB in CPU/OpenCL, then attempts to work the video in 4096x2160x128x30-60fps in a Floating Point mode. This is what give you the quality of working at very high color levels. That works out to about 4.2- 8.5GB/s. Even though you have a nice system rig, it cannot keep up frame wise with the decode calculations, then the conversions to RGB, then send that back to the display driver, and do that faster than 30-60FPS. 30-60 FPS is 16-34ms. That means your system has to turn a frame in less than 16-34ms, with all the other system overheads, to maintain real time playback.

Windows media player uses the display driver directly, then the GPU offloads the h.265 calculations to an ASIC or register on the GPU specifically designed to handle that problem quickly. Then feeds the playback results to a window overlaid on the screen display, everything happens internally to the GPU at that 256GB/s available bandwidth.

Vegas's mode of operation allows you to mix and effect the RGB information. GPU playback is just that, you cannot effect the info being shown to screen. Its a trade off.

All that is why they are telling you to work in proxy mode. Your system does not have what it takes to process the software engine in real-time. Convert your media to a format that has less calculation overhead/complexity. h.265 is really meant to be a playback format and not editing. This all echos back to the early days of h.264 and editing, before CPU/GPU power advancements. Even h.264 is a playback codec, and yet CPU/GPU performance is so high now its overcoming the end users slack in avoiding workflow steps.


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