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Thomas Ames
Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
on Jul 31, 2016 at 5:50:50 pm

Hello,

I'm using Vegas Pro 13.0 and am having a very slow workflow due to the proper frame often being searched for. Along with this, if I simply click around on my strips, Vegas seems to often just freeze up and show "(Not Responding)" on the window title (top of the screen).

Here's a pic of what I get. Notice the frame is "245.", it will continue with "245.." "245..." "245...." as it attempts to load the frame: http://imgur.com/a/jpcWt

As for the common solutions I see people give:
  • I have "Disable Resample" selected, though I do have a video which is not displayed due to opacity in the background

  • My project settings have been set to the video I display as well as the audio (1080p 60fps)

  • I am using RAM buffering (Shift+B)


  • Any solutions to offer?
    Thank you.


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Jul 31, 2016 at 9:44:32 pm

    What this means is that Vegas does not like your source media. This seems to be a common problem with game recordings--finding he right codec for Vegas. You need to provide detailed information on your source media (preferably a screenshot from MediaInfo). Vegas expects a constant frame rate recording and unfortunately much of the available recording software does variable frame rate recording. In any case, you need to provide more information about your recordings. Perhaps someone with experience with such recordings can be of help.

    wwaag


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    Thomas Ames
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 1, 2016 at 3:44:42 am

    Hello and thank you both for your input.

    I couldn't figure out Media Info quickly on how to display all of my current settings so I'll just give it a shot myself:

    I'm using OBS Studio 0.15.2 (64 bit, Windows 10)
    I am recording as an .mp4 using the "AMD Video Coding Engine H.264 Encoder (Media Foundation)"
    I am using a "CQP (Constant Quality)". The other options I see immediately are for "Constant Bitrate" and "Variable Bitrate"
    I have four audio sources, all capturing at a bitrate of 160, Sample Rate of 44.1khz, in Stereo
    My Base Resolution is 2560x1440 being rescaled by OBS to 1920x1080 using a Downscale Filter called "Lanczos (Sharpened scaling, 32 samples)"
    I am using an FPS value of 60. I could use 59.94, but I'm not very educated on this subject, so I went with what I thought was simple.
    The OBS Video renderer I'm using is Direct3D 11. Color Format: NV12. YUV Color Space: 709. YUV Color Range: Full.

    I've been doing some searching for how to force a Constant Framerate, but there is no immediate option for it currently in OBS Studio, from what I can see. I imagine that using Constant Bitrate wouldn't completely solve this problem, either.

    The most promising (or perhaps unfavorable) link I found was this thread on the OBS forums: https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/enable-cfr.27793/
    The thread is from May of 2015, but in it, a Developer says that CFR is always on and never disabled.

    I just realized what I should be doing with MediaInfo :p : http://imgur.com/a/hkgkI I recorded two games with the same settings, so the other footage should be nearly the same, with the possible exception of Bits/(Pixel*Frame) and Stream size.

    So I've covered that CFR is being enforced, and what my OBS settings are. I hope that's enough information for someone to help with the next step.

    Thank you for your input thus far!


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 1, 2016 at 4:29:22 am

    I've seen quite a few recent threads complaining about OBS not playing nicely with Vegas. MediaInfo shows constant frame rate but I have seen that to be wrong as well. Try this. Open Vegas and then import one of your clips and when it asks if you want to set Project settings based on that clip, enter "yes". Then open project properties (alt-enter) and check your frame rate to see if it is exactly 60 fps. If you see anything other than exactly 60,0, e.g. 60.012, then the clip has a variable frame rate. One thing you could do is to import that footage into Handbrake and then render to an MP4, making sure you choose constant frame rate. Handbrake can read such files without any problem. You would lose a bit of quality, but at least the resulting files would load into Vegas without issue and you wouldn't lose those recordings.

    One final thought. If you want to do a lot of recordings, find some "paid" software that is compatible with Vegas. I use Mirilli's Action and it works well for screen recordings, although I don't do game recordings. It records 60 fps without issue. I believe there is still a 30 day trial and it only costs about $30. I'm sure there are other commercial vendors. Good luck.

    wwaag


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    Thomas Ames
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 1, 2016 at 7:50:36 pm

    Thanks for the troubleshooting suggestions Wayne, I plan on doing them when I get home - currently at work - and getting back to you.
    In the meantime, I've been doing some thinking and a bit of thread searching and have come to think that perhaps this project is maxing out my CPU because I'm trying to decode two video strips at the same time.
    The first and the strip at the top of the project (so it's visible) is the footage from OBS as a .mp4 file. I then have two audio strips, mic and game, then another video strip from an .mp4 which I downloaded from Youtube, and then the audio strip that comes with that. 5 Strips in total, two being video.

    I guess the question I should ask is: What happens to the second, lower video strip during the editing process if it is not at all visible due to the 100% opacity of the top video strip? I have to imagine that it is also being processed since, if I set the opacity of my top strip to 99% or lower, that lower strip would be visible.
    I will complete the troubleshooting steps you've suggested, but I also wanted to pose this question in case it was not already being considered.

    Also, I just recently returned to OBS Studio after moving to Dxtory (about $30) in order to capture multiple seperate audio files. During my time with Dxtory, I found that I wasn't capturing the quality I want, so moved back to OBS Studio. The quality of the raw capture is fantastic in comparison to anything I captured on Dxtory (even when maxing out the write speed of my SSD at 400+ MB/sec) so I'm hoping to be able to stick with this.


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 1, 2016 at 8:49:45 pm

    What happens to the second, lower video strip during the editing process if it is not at all visible due to the 100% opacity of the top video strip?

    It should have no effect at all. One thing you could do, however, is to simply mute that video track. That seeking behavior that you describe where the frame number starts having a string of dots is clearly indicative that Vegas cannot properly decode your video file. I've experienced that with files having a variable frame rate and also files that were corrupted. If all else fails, re-render in Handbrake, although that is really not a good long term solution. Perhaps you could try a different recording codec if that is possible. On the Vegas Pro forum, someone was having problems with OBS Studio using the UT Video lossless video codec. Like I said earlier, you are not alone in having problems with OBS. Sorry I can't provide a solution.

    wwaag


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    Thomas Ames
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 2, 2016 at 12:27:04 am

    Okay, so I've found two things:

    1) I can play a 10 second clip over and over again in Vegas Pro and it has no issues, this is with all strips other than my gameplay strip muted or deleted. However, if I change the velocity somewhere, once it reaches that frame, CPU maxes, frames stop, and Vegas stops responding for a few seconds until it finds it's proper place. Then, I can play the clip without messing with the velocity any further and it will play flawlessly.

    2) I ran my original file (2,501,059 KB) through HandBreak with these settings http://imgur.com/a/MtSgM and the resulting file (1,218,678 KB) looks just as great to my eyes. Also, it runs smoothly in Window Media Player where as the original file hops around and pauses in places because "Network is too busy to play file at original quality".

    A final thing I just found while playing around with this new HandBreak created file, velocity edits only slow down the program by fractions of a second instead of multiple seconds. (I still have to play it back a couple times to have zero skipping, even with RAM pre-rendering, but it's better than it was) CPU usage spikes but doesn't max out for extended periods of time like it did with the original footage: http://imgur.com/a/IDdUL

    So does this tell you than my original bitrate/quality was a little too high for Vegas or my machine to process on the fly like that?
    Does it perhaps mean that the encoder I use with OBS Studio is the issue?

    I really do appreciate your help with this so far, as real progress is actually being made!


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 2, 2016 at 5:05:29 am

    I'm confused. This is your first mention (?) of velocity changes. Are you applying a velocity envelope? If so, are you speeding up or slowing? Have you disabled resampling? More importantly, is your problem ONLY with preview performance? Are your rendered files OK? You mention a 10 sec clip that plays OK except when you make velocity changes. You could always upload that to Dropbox or something and perhaps someone might have a look at your clip.

    wwaag


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    Thomas Ames
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 2, 2016 at 4:57:06 pm

    Yeah I am applying a velocity envelope. I'm very sorry, I'm going through previous posts and seeing that I don't mention that anywhere!

    I am both speeding up and slowing down. I've created a Dropbox with both of the projects and all their source media.
    The "Faster Smaller Project" is the strip which was run through HandBreak; "Slow Large Project" is the original.
    Here's a link to the dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/apca65hjl7ltvv6/DropBox.zip?dl=0
    It is quite large; took about 2 hours to upload.

    When I opened the project this morning to try to mess around in it a bit, it took a while for it to start running smoothly. I would scrub a bit and CPU would max out and the program would not respond for a while. Tried it again and the same thing happened. After a few minutes it started running as normal.
    The smaller project ran fine the whole time aside from small pauses when editing velocity.

    And what I meant when I was talking about pauses only when I edit velocity, I meant that the clip would run just fine over and over again.
    However, once I change a point of velocity - even just a small amount - the large project would freeze up looking for the correct frame and then continue a while later (up to 30+ seconds at some points). This also happens when just trying to play the project for the first time or clicking around the timeline.

    Here are the render settings I'm using: http://imgur.com/a/Ln2os Renders for both projects over the velocity edited parts seem completely fine.


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 2, 2016 at 6:18:09 pm

    From what you describe, your problem is with the preview and not the rendered output. Moreover, I couldn't find your PC specs. A 1080 60P project is pretty demanding to begin with, especially using high bit rate mp4 footage as your source material. Add your velocity envelopes to that and it is not surprising that your preview would be marginal unless you have a really high-end system. Have you played around with different preview quality settings? It may help or may not, but it's worth a try.

    The bottom line is that since your final render is good, your poor preview performance isn't a show stopper, just an inconvenience. When I return to my editing system (probably this weekend), I'll give it a try.

    wwaag


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    Thomas Ames
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 2, 2016 at 7:29:16 pm

    Here's my whole build: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/I3reeze/saved/vwpWGX

    My hope is that at some point I could record in my native 1440p at 60fps.
    I changed my Vegas settings to use 8GB of RAM (I think) instead of the default 4. If allowing more would help with this inconvenience, I'd be more than willing.
    My build currently has 16 GB of DDR4 RAM and I'd be willing to upgrade/buy more if it would help.

    I have messed with preview settings in the past, it's currently pretty low quality, but I haven't messed with them recently. Currenlty, I think I use Preview>Auto

    Thanks for all your help so far.


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 3, 2016 at 4:27:50 am

    In my book at least, you have a very high-end system--I'm a bit envious. That should not be an issue. All along, it's sounded to me like a codec issue. Does OBS support Intel Quick-Sync which I know doesn't have an issue inside of Vegas? Mirilli's Action supports QS plus its own avi which imports well into Vegas. May not make a difference, but given all the problems with OBS, it might be worth a try. I'll have a look upon return to my editing system, hopefully this weekend sometime. In the interim, perhaps someone else might have a look.

    wwaag


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    Thomas Ames
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 8, 2016 at 6:17:46 pm

    Hey Wayne,

    Did you get a chance to try out those video? I've been just using the Handbreak'ed versions of them and it's been going much better. My CPU has a rough time when I try to preview/RAM-preview velocity edited footage - especially negative velocity - but it's better than before.

    I'm interested to hear your analysis!


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 8, 2016 at 8:11:57 pm

    Glad you reminded me. Returned just this weekend to my editing station. Just downloaded your dropbox files and tried them.

    First, your original file. It plays OK in MPC-HC and Windows Media Player. However, I get the same problem in Vegas. It just hangs and I have to end Vegas in Task Manager. I also tried opening the file in VideoReDo and TMPGEnc's Smart Renderer, both designed to smart-render AVC files. In both cases, the file would not open. VideoReDo gave an error message and TMPGEnc just hung like Vegas. Again, my suspicion is that your file was recorded using a variable frame rate. I found another thread of mine where I tried recording to an MP4 using Mirillis Action with their Quick-Sync option. The result was also a variable frame rate file which would not open in Vegas, but had to be re-rendered in Handbrake. Files recorded to an AVI were OK. The bottom line is that you need to find some recorder that produces constant frame rate files which can be directly imported into Vegas. Otherwise, you are stuck with transcoding using Handbrake or something similar.

    Your second project using the Handbrake file opened without issue. Render preview on Best/Full was pretty much pegged at 60 fps, even that portion where there were changes in the velocity envelope. In other words, no problem at all.

    My suggestion is that you continue a search to find something that "works" for direct import into Vegas. I would try recording to an AVI, since it is my understanding that an AVI is always a constant frame rate. Having said that, I've seen some posts about problems with AVI's using OBS. As I've said before, this problem seems to be very common and as of yet, I've seen no solution, other than transcoding. If you do find something, please post back. Good luck again.

    wwaag


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    Thomas Ames
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 10, 2016 at 6:36:07 pm

    Thanks for that Wayne,

    What I've found to work best for me so far is tweaking some options in OBS.
    I've seen you respond to a lot of OBS/Vegas issues so I figured you could pass along this information in the future.

    First off, my GPU is an AMD R9 290x (2 in crossfire, but I don't think that matters here). I think my issues came from using the AMD VCE codec in OBS instead of the x264. I did this in hopes that my card would do the bulk of the work hardware-side instead of software-side. I also was using the OpenCL renderer instead of the DirectX11 (11 or 12, I'm not sure), because OpenCL seems to be AMD's baby and I thought it would be best to have as much of this done through AMD software since I have an AMD card.

    I've only edited one video thus far with these OBS settings, but it ran much better using the regular x264 codec (encoder?) and DirectX11 renderer.

    I haven't looked into it - and don't really care to since the quality I'm recording at now seems pretty great to me - but perhaps there's a way to include an AMD decoder plugin to Vegas to make using that encoder more viable. (I keep using terms like "encoder" and "decoder" in reference to codec, sorry if that's inappropriate.)

    I have another question for you though: If I am recording at "60fps", with Dxtory, it told me what my write speed actually was, and it wasn't a consistent 60, it jumped around from 58-62 usually. How can I tell the exact FPS when editing in Vegas? Or should it be exactly 60 due to Constant Frame Rate. I understand what CFR means, but my thought process is that maybe it's just shooting for constant but can't quite keep it stable.

    Thanks again.


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 11, 2016 at 2:38:17 am

    Thomas,

    Couple of comments. First, I think you mean openGL rather than openCL. From a search, it appears there isn't a major difference between using openGL and Direct 3D 11 in OBS. AFAIK, there is no codec that can be downloaded to enable use of the AMC VCE codec in Vegas. It would seem that with installation of the AMD software, it would include the proper decoders. Regarding Dxtory, another recording software I haven't used, that sort of jumping around would indicate to me it was a variable framerate recording. Or it may be that frames are being dropped. I really haven't a clue.

    Since OBS is such a constant topic on this forum, I decided to download it and give it a try on my system. I have a i7 3770k overclocked a bit that drives two monitors. I use the Intel HD4000 to drive one display and an Nvidia 650 to drive the 2nd montor. Both are relatively modest display adapters, but sufficient for my needs in Vegas. Using OBS to record the screen on my first monitor driven by the HD4000, here's what I found. Using QuickSync did not work at all. The resulting file would not load into Vegas--it would show audio only. Using the X264 option, there were no problems importing the rendered file into Vegas. The only problem was that CPU usage was up to 60-70% during recording. I then tried the avi option. It uses FFMPEG and saves the file as lossless using the UT Video codec. That worked very well as far as importing the rendered file into Vegas. The audio was also lossless although limited to a single channel. Moreover, the CPU load was only around 15%. Since I have the Nvidia card, there was also an NVENC option which also imported well into Vegas. Moreover, CPU load was only around 5% during recording.

    All in all, I'm really surprised about how well the OBS rendered files imported into Vegas. It's certainly changed my opinion about using this freeware. From my experience, quite honestly, I can't understand why so many are having problems.

    Why don't you try the avi option, see how it works for you, and report back. You will have to download and install the UT Video codec package--its freeware also. The advantages of lossless video and audio, low CPU impact, and easy import into Vegas seems a real plus. The only downside was that Best/full preview was only around 53-55 fps, rather than 59 when using the mp4 files, not a real biggie as far as I'm concerned. Your R290 should have it pegged at 59 without missing a beat. Also, the files will be much larger. Let me know what you find.

    wwaag


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    Thomas Ames
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 11, 2016 at 3:04:00 am

    Hey Wayne,

    It's great that you tried out OBS! Did you download the Studio version or the original?
    I thought I had downloaded the UT Video codec when I used Dxtory (http://imgur.com/a/CMDAQ) but it doesn't get picked up by OBS (http://imgur.com/a/dSvY4). Perhaps you could link me to the download site you used.
    I've also looked at FFMPEG specific options: http://imgur.com/a/azQ8e
    Unfortunately, I just don't have enough of an understanding to know what my best option would be.

    I'm all about lossless recording, I'd just like the option to edit audio strips separately due to volume peaks, music editing, etc. but I would certainly give it a try.

    Could you show me the settings you're using for your recordings?
    From searches, I've found that using a "bigger" "CPU Usage Preset" means that the CPU is used less, but when I have the preset lower than "ultrafast", the highest option, the game I'm playing jitters.


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 11, 2016 at 5:02:21 am

    I used the latest studio version. I'll post some screenshots of settings tomorrow.

    wwaag


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    Thomas Ames
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 11, 2016 at 3:40:24 pm

    So I guess I lied.
    I hadn't messed with my CPU Preset in a while, but I found that using "Veryfast" does work with my system. It is explained as the "sweet spot" by an admin on this OBS forum and, though my CPU has high usage (sometimes skims just below 99%) when running the high-CPU-usage game (Overwatch) and OBS Studio at Veryfast, it doesn't max out for noticeably long periods of time, meaning that I am able to record at higher quality without the game freezing up (too much).

    I don't fully understand the other settings on the Video Output tab, though, so I'm not sure if I should be using CRF or some other option.

    Just figured I'd correct myself in the case that you find "anything short of Ultrafast gives me issues" to be odd.

    Thank again.

    P.S.: I can't imagine that anything using a preset lower than "Fast" could be used by a system not running multiple processors. I'm not sure how outdated by CPU is, but it was pretty high end at the time of purchase. Granted, that was about a year ago and PCs grow old at like 6 months, but still.


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    Wayne Waag
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 11, 2016 at 7:09:41 pm

    Just posted my screen shots in a new thread.

    wwaag


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    Steve Rhoden
    Re: Vegas Pro 13 - Constantly Loading Frame - High CPU Usage
    on Aug 1, 2016 at 12:55:36 am

    If this is game captured video, that is why Vegas is having a hard time with it.
    That's the root of the issue...

    Steve Rhoden (Cow Leader)
    Film Maker & VFX Artist.
    Owner of Filmex Creative Media.
    Samples of my Work and Company can be seen here:
    http://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia


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