FORUMS: list search recent posts

New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering

COW Forums : VEGAS Pro

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Rosario Andò
New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 14, 2016 at 8:34:59 pm

Hi,
I built a desktop PC with this configuration:

mainboard: MSI H170A PC Mate
CPU: Intel i5 6600
RAM: 16 GB (2x8 GB) Kingston DDR4 2133MHz
SSD: Sandisk 240GB
power supply: Corsair CX650M 650W
SO: Windows 7 Professional 64bit

Now, I need a graphic card for Vegas 13 rendering. Only rendering, no gaming!! I'm too old to play with Battlefield and Uncharted!
My rendering use MainConcept AVC codec. I read a lot about MainConcept AVC weird features...it works better with old graphic cards (Geforce GTX 500 and GTX 400 series,) than with new ones (GTX 970, GTX980, and so on...).
But with AMD cards is the same? An old HD Radeon 6970 or HD 6870 performs better than a modern R9 380 o R9 480?
Which I should buy?

I prefer a new graphic card, because I just bought an used GTX590 and it is damaged (black screen during Windows 7 boot). I don't want to waste 100€ again for a broken card, so if AMD R9 performs well with rendering, my preference goes to a brand new AMD R9 rather than to an old GTX580 or HD6870.

Thank you very much indeed


Return to posts index

Scott Francis
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 15, 2016 at 1:40:41 am

I would personally wait (or use your old card) until Magix does the new Vegas release this fall.
I have a R290x and it previews and renders fine.

Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


Return to posts index

Rosario Andò
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 15, 2016 at 9:48:57 am

I think I will not update to the new Vegas version. BTW, what it will change? Improved render performance with Mainconcept AVC codec or just "cosmethic" changes to the software interface?

So, your advise is to buy a new AMD R9? Now I don't own any graphic card, just Intel Intel integrated graphic of my MSI mainboard, and a non working nvidia GTX590.


Return to posts index


Rosario Andò
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 15, 2016 at 10:09:45 am

Sorry, but when you say "I have a R290x and it previews and renders fine." what do you mean?

For example. With my old desktop PC (Athlon 64 x2 5400, 2 GB RAM), a 10 minutes render (only CPU, 1920x1080p, 14Mbps, 29.97 fps, 256KBps audio, 48KHz) it tooks about 1h15' (1:7 render time...1minute video ->7 minutes render)
With my new desktop PC (i5 6600), the same render tooks about 30 minutes using only CPU (1:3 render time).

With your R9 290x, how many times it requires to render a 1 minute video with this settings (1920x1080p, 14Mbps, ecc...)?


Return to posts index

Scott Francis
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 16, 2016 at 3:03:41 am

As in "fine" most of my MP4 renders are less than the timeline length in render time (as in, a 2hr video may take 1.75 hrs to render. If I am only using one video track and not a lot of FX's it is much quicker(1/2 the time usually).
As others have stated render times are VERY subjective.

I don't know why (unless $ is an obstacle) someone wouldn't want to upgrade to the new upcoming Vegas. SVP13 was released almost 2 years ago and even then much of it's architecture and rendering codecs were a little long in the tooth, not even touching on the totally out of date rendering and GPU utilization.
Even if you are not looking to move to 4K, I am really expecting Magix to give us many newer industry standard abilities that have just been lacking in Vegas. Could I be wrong? Yes, but dear God I hope not. If this upgrade doesn't fill in many of the gaps Vegas has, I would think some of us will jump ship, especially those of us who may have been planing too until Magix took it over.

As Aaron said, you can do what you like, but I would caution about being to shortsighted at this stage in the game. Hope this helps.
Good luck!

Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


Return to posts index

Jeff Lee
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 15, 2016 at 3:45:00 pm

The big thing for me is native PRORES.....


Return to posts index


Aaron Star
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 15, 2016 at 7:15:01 pm

Rendering times are subjective in Vegas. Render times vary greatly based on source codec, timeline GPU effects used, the type of effects used, the compositing layers required, drop shdows, ect. GPU assist can improve frame building prior to hitting the encoder, which can improve the encoder output FPS.

The OP has a new system which has an I5 installed where an i7 should be. A discreete GPU would be an improvement to this system, but the CPU is gimped compared to an i7. A very high end GPU might seem like its not being utilized due to the CPU bottlenecking. However, a highend GPU would be utilized, with the results being returned so fast that the normal GPU utilization monitors do not show the spikes.

High system utilizaton does not nessesarily mean good performance, as we do not drive our cars around the street at 6000RPM all the time. Improved render times might be speedometer that everyone uses, but there are other factors in terms of system latencies that factor in. The old Sony Timeline benchmark is outdated, and needs to be upgraded to 4K, and possibly run in at least 32-bit Video level mode. With an upgraded benchmark, we would see a much greater gap between system configurations and GPUs, and it would be much easier for people to see what they are getting for the money.

Most do not require the MC GPU encoder anymore, and either use the Sony AVC or Handbrake system for MP4 output.



I posted this a day or two ago on another thread.

Just use the onboard GPU if you are waiting on a 480. The RX480 is great on power usage, but not the top in calc speeds. If you want to just stick in a temp card to enable OpenCL/GPU benefits, there is always ebay. I would recommend the following in order:

AMD:
5770 (1360 gflops)
r9-270x
6970
7970-ghz
RX480
r9-290x
R9-390x
R9-FuryX (8600 gflops)

The i7-6700 is around 113 gflops, so if you do any blurs or other GPU effects adding a GPU will help even a modern CPU. If you are planning on running a 4K monitor, then use the onboard GPU, and the add on GPU for compute only. 7970 and above are the only cards to support 4k. There is a difference between display resolution ability and computational performance.


Return to posts index

Rosario Andò
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 15, 2016 at 9:40:23 pm
Last Edited By Rosario Andò on Jul 15, 2016 at 9:46:20 pm

Ok AAron, rendering times depends, first of all, from the complexity of the project, and then from many other parameters, but the adjective "fine" is too hazy, too subjective.
I prefer to speak of numbers, numbers are objective.

Anyway, i don't work, and i will not work in the next years, with 4K display and 4K clips beacause my Sony A6000 mirroless camera and my LG 22" monitor, are both limited to 1080p.

Today I got in touch with some people selling used graphic cards. The options are:
nvidia GTX 560Ti (price to set with the seller)
nvidia GTX 580 (price to set with the seller)
AMD XFX HD6850 1 GB (70€)
AMD HD6950 2GB with triple fan aftermarket heatsink (65€)

Yesterday I saw a GTX590 (a dual GTX580) for 80€, but it was already sold.

The HD6950 2GB wins in therm of raw power compared to the 560Ti, but in this video, even with this mid-range nvidia GPU, the render times are accelerated by about 3x (78minutes -> 28 minutes with deblocking filter OFF)






The same factor (3x, 4x) appears with many other GPU from nvidia and ATI, when you pass from CPU rendering to GPU rendering. This benchmark appeared in the SonyCreativeSoftware forum, so it would be quite realiable.
http://www.hyperactivemusic.com/vegaspro/vegaspro.html


My idea is that Sony Vegas and Mainconcept AVC don't work like a 3D game, where if you double the computing power, you double the framerate, so, when you render a project, the difference between a 100€ GPU and a 400€ GPU is very little, so I think that even the little nVidia 560Ti could works fine for me.
Maybe the impact of the CPU (4cores/4thread of i5 vs. 4cores/8thread of i7) is more remarkable.


Return to posts index

Aaron Star
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 15, 2016 at 10:17:02 pm

Hey you can always do what you want to do, myself and other on the forum are only trying to help.

"when you pass from CPU rendering to GPU rendering. " I do not think you get that Vegas is OpenCL based and in no way Cuda based. The MC encoder is the only Cuda part of vegas, unless some 3rd party plug has coded for Cuda. You should do some research into what OpenCL is and how to optimize it on your system. Here are a couple links:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9390/the-amd-radeon-r9-fury-x-review/24 - this shows the monumental GAP in performance that AMD holds in OpenCL. Luxmark 2.0 utilizes OpenCL in the same way Vegas sees the system resources, and so makes for a good test utility.


Return to posts index


Rosario Andò
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 16, 2016 at 9:09:32 am
Last Edited By Rosario Andò on Jul 16, 2016 at 9:21:17 am

I really appreciate the help you gave me and the great knowledge you show about Sony Vegas.
Unfortunately, my experience with this software is very limited, because I am not a professional of video editing and I use SV since few months.

This is what I have so far figured about Sony Vegas through my little experience and through long internet researchs:

1. The new AMD R9 card performs very well, as confirmed by Luxmark benchmark (I already knew that test), but I suppose that Luxamrk is realiable when you speak about preview window, the ability to play smooth preview with complex effects and transition.
In Sony Vegas 13 there is a folder called "GPU accelerated" that collect effects like Glow, HSL Adjust, Lens Flare, Defocus, Fill Light, Quick Blur, Radial Blur, and so on. With this effect, especially when you use many of them in the same clip, I suppose that a last-generation GPU like R9 290 or R9 390, performs bettere than a 2011-GPU.

2. But when it comes to render a video with MC AVC codec, the things go otherwise, as confirmed by users in SCS Forum.....
.....
http://www.hyperactivemusic.com/vegaspro/vegaspro.html

because MainConcept stopped to support AVC codec in 2010-2011, so only the GPU of that era are ufficially supported.
Here, the last-gen GPU for which you spent a lot of money, goes worst than a 2010-2011 GPU and it takes more time to render the same video.
There are many topics about this problems on the web, and even in Creative Cow forum. This is why I started to search for an old GPU and not for a GTX980.

Tell me if I misunderstood something.


Anyway, is very weird that in Luxmark bench, an high-end last-gen nvidia GPU (GTX980), scores lower than a 2012 AMD GPU (HD7970) (1521 vs. 2102). Both AMD and nVidia supports OpenCL, but as you noticed, AMD holds a monumental GAP in performance...de facto, nVidia is 2-3 years behind.


Return to posts index

Wayne Waag
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 16, 2016 at 3:01:47 pm

One point that you haven't considered is that there are better encoders than MainConcept. One in particular, Handbrake, is very well suited for use with Vegas, especially when used the Debugmode Frameserver and the Vegas to Handbrake "one-click" solution.

http://www.vegasvideo.de/vegas-2-handbrake-en

It takes a bit to set up, but it's well worth the effort. It also supports Intel quick-sync renders, a great deal faster than CPU-only. Another bonus, it's free.

wwaag


Return to posts index

Rosario Andò
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 16, 2016 at 6:14:35 pm
Last Edited By Rosario Andò on Jul 16, 2016 at 6:33:55 pm

Is Handbrake format compatible with H264, and so with social media platform like Youtube and Instagram?
I tried different videos format in Sony Vegas, but only MC AVC (H264) is supported by these platforms.

PS: Scott said that R9 290 previews and renders fine, but here it seems that there's no difference between CPU rendering and GPU rendering with this graphic card. 55 seconds in both cases







Return to posts index


Wayne Waag
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Jul 16, 2016 at 6:35:27 pm

Handbrake does produce h264 video inside of a mp4 container. It is compatible with YouTube, Vimeo, etc. It uses the x264 encoder which is considered to be one of the best available and one that is widely used in other commercial software. Inside of Vegas, you can also use Sony AVC which produces h264 video. You can also use QuickSync with Sony AVC, although its limited to 720P

wwaag


Return to posts index

Rosario Andò
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Aug 1, 2016 at 7:10:11 pm
Last Edited By Rosario Andò on Aug 1, 2016 at 7:11:09 pm

Finally, I got an AMD HD6950 2GB for only 65€, with aftermarket triple fan.
First test, with Sony Vegas 13: 10 minutes video, 1920x1080p, 14MBps, 29,97p (NTSC), audio 256Kbps, @48KHz, codec MainConcept AVC

CPU only: 28 minutes
OpenCL: 5 minutes!!


Return to posts index

Ryan Gray
Re: New GPU for Vegas 13 rendering
on Aug 23, 2017 at 7:23:59 pm

So which one specifically is "best" in your list - reading from top to bottom or from bottom to top? Is it the AMD 5770 or the R9 FuryX? I currently have the AMD Radeon RX 580X Sapphire Nitro version, 8GB memory. Is that a good one or where does it rank on your list? I'm really trying to determine the very best AMD card to use with SVP 13 as of August 23rd, 2017.

Thanks so much for your help and reply!


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]