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No 1080 25p option

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Patrick Cooper
No 1080 25p option
on Oct 20, 2015 at 2:23:26 pm

I know I made a similar post some time ago but I can't locate it and didn't find any solution to my problem. I have been using Sony Movie Studio Platinum 12 for several months. Overall, it's a great, versatile NLE program but it one major flaw. And that is - there is no 1920 x 1080 25p output option which really sucks for PAL users like myself. I can output video as 1280 x 720 25p or alternatively 1080 50i.

Right at this moment, I am working on a short film which is being shot at 1080 25p and which I am going to submit to a local film festival later this year. And it would be nice to be able to render the finished product as 1920 x 1080 25p if it is selected for display on the big screen at the festival. Would anyone have a solution to my dilemma? I hope I don't have to fork out money for another NLE program just to be able to render at the resolution / frame rate that I want.


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Russ Froze
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 21, 2015 at 12:43:28 am

I'm not certain about Movie Studio version but in pro you simply customise a render template to taste or need and save it as a new template. TAke your 1280 x 720 25p modify it it 1920 x 1080 then rename the template and save it.
Russ Froze


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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 21, 2015 at 4:05:06 am

In the past, Ive tried to find a way to customise render settings but couldn't find a way. I tried again just now and it is indeed possible and so simple to do. Thankyou! I notice the default bitrate for 1280 x 720 is 18mbps. When I change the height and width to 1920 x 1080, should I bump the bitrate up to something like 20 or 25mbps?


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Russ Froze
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 21, 2015 at 4:29:21 am

The bitrate of course depends on the delivery format but for Blu Ray 20 -25 is the norm.
Russ Froze


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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 21, 2015 at 4:56:20 am

Ah cool. Would 20 - 25 also be fine for playing the file from a hard drive? For this film competition I'm entering, I don't really know what delivery format they're accepting films on, and also for screening also. I'll have to ask them.


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Russ Froze
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 21, 2015 at 5:04:15 am

Yes 25 should play from a drive but again that depends on your gear. As to festivals they accept Blu Ray HD format. Those 4K projectors are costly to rent plus most festival filmmakers don't have a budget for the cameras, How ever it never hurts to check with the festivals or theater venues you wish to show the work at. Best of luck.
Russ Froze


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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 24, 2015 at 5:49:23 am

Just now, I customised one of the templates to 1920 x 1080, 25p with a bitrate of 25mbps but Sony Movie Studio won't let me render the video. A message comes up that says: "An error occurred while creating this media file. The reason for the error could not be determined."

Any ideas on what's going on?

I tried a few more times and also saved the custom template as well but I still get the same message.


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Russ Froze
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 24, 2015 at 8:54:25 am

[Patrick Cooper] "An error occurred while creating this media file. The reason for the error could not be determined"

Hi, ok usually but not always this message comes up when a template is customised in such a way that is not supported by the codec in use. May I ask which template was customised and to what degree? Preferably a screen shot of the customised template and the name of the original template so I have a starting point.
Russ Froze


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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 24, 2015 at 1:38:25 pm

Thankyou Russ. As I'm not computer savvy, I'm not really sure how to do screen captures. But until I work that out, I'll do my best to explain what I did with regards to modifications. I actually modified two templates but did not have success with either one. I only changed a few things. Most of the settings I left as default. Both templates can be found in the MainConcept MPEG2 group.

The first template I modified was HDV 1080 - 24p. I changed the 1440 x 1080 to 1920 x 1080 and changed the 24p to 25p. I kept everything else the same.

The second template I modified was HDV 720 - 25p. I changed the 1280 x 720 to 1080 x 1920 and kept the frame rate the same - 25p. I increased the bitrate to 25mbps. I kept everything else the same.

The only other thing I did with both templates was increase the video quality all the way to 'high'.

I hope that helps.


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Russ Froze
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 24, 2015 at 4:39:23 pm

OK Patrick, the reason for the error message is simple. The chosen template to modify is intended for a specific device and that specific device is expecting the default settings of the template. In short there is a good chance the player would not play your file in the big screen. In the stand alone version of the Main Concept encoder you would receive a message along the lines of "does not conform to standard" or something like that. Vegas receives an error message from the internal Main Concept encoder but does not a means of interpreting the error message so Vegas will output a standard message of "something is wrong but I don't know what".

The trick is to find out the Device IE player typically used in the area you expect to play the file. Best practice is to contact the festival officials and render the files accordingly.



[Patrick Cooper] "The first template I modified was HDV 1080 - 24p. I changed the 1440 x 1080 to 1920 x 1080 and changed the 24p to 25p. I kept everything else the same"
The 1440 x 1080 can not be changed 1920 x 1080 for it does not conform to the player's standards and will not play

[Patrick Cooper] "The second template I modified was HDV 720 - 25p. I changed the 1280 x 720 to 1080 x 1920 and kept the frame rate the same - 25p. I increased the bitrate to 25mbps. I kept everything else the same. "

Again the 1280 x 720 must not be changed to 1080 x 1920.

As I stated earlier, it is best to find someone in your area who is familiar with the expected standards or acceptable file types. Don't worry about the 1440 bit when you play the file in a device or your desktop the player will adjust the size to it proper dimensions.
Russ Froze


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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 24, 2015 at 9:07:52 pm

Thankyou Russ. As well as future festivals etc, I also wanted a file type that would be compatible with playing back on a pc and a HDTV. And good to know that it's okay to use 1440. I did not expect that since 1440 is a lower number than 1920 - I would have expected some of the image area to be cut off. I do vaguely recall somewhere among the templates was a 1440 x 1080 25p template. I hope that particular template produces a file that is compatible with a wide variety of devices.


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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 24, 2015 at 9:42:02 pm

Oh another thing. I know that you mentioned that the default settings in the templates I selected were suited to playback in specific devices. I have used the HDV 720 25p option many times to play back successfully on a HDTV. Though surely, a HDTV could also play back a 1920 x 1080 25p file? After all, that's the video standard that's used in PAL countries like mine. And there was advice given to me on another forum to change 1280 x 720 to 1920 x 1080 - so yea I was just following that advice! Though it didn't work anyway.

When I record HD video with my Panasonic G6 camera, I select 1920 x 1080 25p. It just seems really strange to me that with Sony Movie Studio, there is no way to use those same specifications when I render / output video. When I want to play the file back on a HDTV via usb, I can of course output the file as 1280 x 720 25p or 1920 x 1080 50i but neither of those options are going to give me quality as good as the original raw footage. Is it just Sony Movie Studio that is to blame or is it the case that there are no NLE programs out there that can create a 1920 x 1080 25p video file?


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Russ Froze
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Oct 25, 2015 at 12:14:12 am

[Patrick Cooper] "good to know that it's okay to use 1440. I did not expect that since 1440 is a lower number than 1920 - I would have expected some of the image area to be cut off. I do vaguely recall somewhere among the templates was a 1440 x 1080 25p template"

It is odd as you mentioned that 1440 would be a number chosen but it is a trick that engineers have applied. By squishing some pixels during encoding and then restoring them to the original size a file can be drastically reduced. The early HD cameras used this to allow more recording time onto expensive media of the day. Also TV and cable providers need to find a way to reduce bandwidth. This method was employed before mp4 was adopted as a standard.

[Patrick Cooper] "I hope that particular template produces a file that is compatible with a wide variety of devices."

Ok that particular template is used for HDTV or DVD/Blu Ray Authoring. IF you are looking for a cross platform template. look under Either MAinConcept AVC/AAC (.mp4; .avc) or Sony AVC/MVC (mp4; m2ts; avc)
Russ Froze


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Rick Hughes
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Nov 11, 2015 at 5:10:52 pm

I have Movie Studio 12 .. and just rendered a whole load of 1920x1080 25fps video it is fully supported.

1080 50i is what you select and that gives you 2 identical frames, look at the pic attached ... it is the 1080 50i template ... under frame rate it is set to 25fps.

In my case I modified bit rate as I only wanted 20Mbps average.



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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Nov 17, 2015 at 9:24:52 am

Rick, what I wanted was 25p, hence the title of the opening post. P stands for progressive. Yes 50i is 25fps but it is interlaced. That's fine if you want to put your films on a Blu-Ray disc but for me, I would like to play my films on a modern tv from a connected usb drive and have the very best quality possible (progressive displays the whole picture at once whereas interlaced will give you half a picture at any one time.) Additionally, the film festival that I am submitting my film to next month does not accept Blu-Ray discs. I have discovered a 1440 x 1080 25p template on Sony Movie Studio but it produces a wmv file and the bit rate is shockingly low - I don't think it would look all that great on a big screen at a festival. And my TV doesn't recognise the file either. So that template is not a valid option.

Actually, there is one thing I'm unclear about. With a Blu-Ray disc containing 50i material, is it the Blu-Ray player or the TV that converts the video to progressive? If it is the TV that does the converting, would it do the same with 50i material played from a usb drive?


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Eric Clinch
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Nov 17, 2015 at 10:14:43 am

Patrick, can you not export as mp4 provided your film festival accepts it. I would expect your TV to also play mp4. In SMS12 either the Main Concept or Sony AVC Internet HD 1080p templates will give you 25p if you alter the framerate from their default NTSC settings.

As for your last query, with a thumbdrive your TV will deinterlace your 25 frames interlaced into 50 full frames to display. With Blu-ray players it depends on their setting. Most give you the option to choose between 50i or 50p output. The former leaves your TV to deinterlace while with the latter the player does the deinterlacing. At least that is my experience.

Personally I prefer 50i over 25p. With fast or close sideways movement I find 25p jerky. The ideal is of course 50p


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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Nov 17, 2015 at 1:25:00 pm

Eric, this film festival does accept MP4. They also accept MOV files as well. Unfortunately, with my copy of Sony Movie Studio Platinum 12, there is no 1080 25p option in the Main Concept or Sony AVC templates. In the Main Concept AVC / AAC templates, there are two 1080p options that I can see (Sony Tablet 1080p and Internet HD 1080p) but they are both 29p - not 25p. And the bit rates are really low too. Sony AVC / MVC does come close with a 1920 x 1080 24p option. Okay, I guess I could stick with 50i. Yea I have heard about the potential jerkiness in 25p footage but I never noticed any when playing video directly from my cameras.

For this film festival, I could submit a 1080 50i file (looks like I don't have much choice anyway.) However, I can't find an MP4 1080 50i template, even within the Main Concept or Sony AVC offerings.


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George Dean
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Nov 17, 2015 at 5:44:37 pm

Just a thought.....

Patrick wrote, "They also accept MOV files as well."

Will they accept a DNxHD codec in an MOV container? If so, that should provide you 25p of a high quality, which you can render from SMS12P.


Best Regards.....George


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Eric Clinch
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Nov 17, 2015 at 8:12:20 pm

Patrick, most of the templates are not set in stone. You can modify them. So in the Framerate drop down box select 25.00 for PAL. It is there as an option. The same for bitrates, they can be altered. Then save your customised template under a new name for future use.


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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Nov 17, 2015 at 10:58:26 pm

George, I'm not sure if they'll accept a DNxHD codec and I'm not familiar with that.

Eric, as I have found out through my experimenting, a lot of the settings in the templates are indeed set in stone. Ive found that I can change very little when I try and customise them. If I recall, I may have had some success in changing the bitrate but if I try and change the frame rate (fps), Sony Movie Studio returns an error and refuses to render the video. That's with two templates that Ive tried to modify. I guess I could try customising some other templates and see if I have any success with them.


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Eric Clinch
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Nov 18, 2015 at 12:28:44 am

If you're source material is PAL 1080 50i you should not have problems exporting as mp4 PAL 1080 25p. I'm puzzled as why it doesn't work for you.

As for hitting a stone wall if you alter a Blu-ray or AVCHD template so it falls outside the Blu-ray specs then yes you will encounter a problem.


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Patrick Cooper
Re: No 1080 25p option
on Nov 18, 2015 at 1:34:48 am

My source material is 1080 25p. I haven't tried the BluRay or AVCHD templates.


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