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Delivery Formats, Editing Formats, what to do?

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JF Baez
Delivery Formats, Editing Formats, what to do?
on Apr 7, 2015 at 8:46:12 am

Greetings forum, I have been using vegas a lot lately and I just face a wall now.

Since the title of the Thread is about editing and delivery video formats, I think that it has to do something with "related" issues while editing a high number of video clips in one project.


Let me start with a problem I am facing right now:

Vegas is a good software, but we know that there are several tools that can make your work way easier and faster, for example, the boris suite or mocha pro, i use both in my case.

I found Mocha PRO very good for tracking, I can export the tracking data via boris corner pin. So whats the problem? Video format.

Mocha pro doesnt support MTS video files (and this is the format of all my videos). I had to convert clips to a MP4 using handbrake but I think handbrake is made for delivery, not for editing (correct me if I am wrong).

So, I wanted to know, If there is a workaround to convert my raw video files (MTS) to a editing format (compatible with mocha and vegas aswell) so then, I could edit them without worries about compatibility (and avoid vegas crashing while editing).









**copy paste from mocha's website:
**********************************************************************
File Formats
Supported in Version 4.1

Mocha supports most standard movie clip and image sequence formats. In order to use clips (i.e. not image sequences) you must have QuickTime installed. Level of QuickTime support can vary depending on the operating system.
Movie clip formats

AVI files (.avi)
DV Stream files (.dv)
MP4 files (.mp4)
MPG files (.mpg)
QuickTime Movie files (.mov and .qt)
RED files (.r3d)

Image formats

OpenEXR files (.exr)
OpenEXR 2 files (.exr)
Cineon files (.cin)
DPX files (.dpx)
JPEG files (.jpg and .jpeg)
PNG files (.png)
SGI files (.bw, .iris, .rgb, .rgba and .sgi)
TGA files (.tga)
TIFF files (.tif and .TIFF)

Not Directly Supported in Version 4

These formats are either not supported directly by mocha or require additional plugins for QuickTime or your system.
Movie clip formats

AVCHD files (.mts and .m2t)
Windows Media files (.wmv)
Cineform files (without supporting codec)

Image formats

RAW image files (.RAW)

**********************************************************************







after this, I want to tell another problem, recently I discovered the "NESTING" method to edit projects with a lot of work, and I found it as a great way to improve the workflow but when I rendered, the audio was not matching at all, personally I prefer to "render" a segment of my project and later add it to the timeline, I found this way to be smoother with the computer (since vegas doesnt need to apply all the vfx and transitions and such again).

so this send me again to the delivery/editing format thing.... I have been trying to use all the goodies from vegas, I also have found some weirds "problems" (for example, darker clips after rendering, related to a RGB levels, or studio levels).


So, what can I do? this seems to be several problems but in reality all is about the delivery/editing formats.

Thanks in advance and I hope this could help more users with a related problem.


PD: sorry for my bad english,kindest regards from Dominican Republic.
J. Báez.


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John Rofrano
Re: Delivery Formats, Editing Formats, what to do?
on Apr 7, 2015 at 11:11:04 pm

[JF Baez] "Mocha pro doesnt support MTS video files (and this is the format of all my videos). I had to convert clips to a MP4 using handbrake but I think handbrake is made for delivery, not for editing (correct me if I am wrong)."
You are asking the right questions and you are correct that Handbreak is best used for delivery formats like MP4 because you will loose quality using this format for editing.
[JF Baez] "So, I wanted to know, If there is a workaround to convert my raw video files (MTS) to a editing format (compatible with mocha and vegas aswell) so then, I could edit them without worries about compatibility (and avoid vegas crashing while editing)."
What you want to do is use a Digital Intermediary format for multi-program workflow. The best one I have found is CineForm. There are paid versions but there is also free version of the codec which comes with GoPro Studio (which is also free). If you convert your MTS files to CineForm AVI files that should work well in Mocha. You can render back and forth to CineForm many times and not see any degradation in quality.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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JF Baez
Re: Delivery Formats, Editing Formats, what to do?
on Apr 9, 2015 at 4:00:26 am

Thanks, J.R., I will check and I will give it a try.


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JF Baez
Re: Delivery Formats, Editing Formats, what to do?
on Apr 10, 2015 at 5:14:05 am

oh God I cant believe this could turn to be so complicated, I will add some screenshots.

I was looking for the CINEFORM codec, in my sony vegas it appears under the codec list, but when I try to render, nothing happened, it seems like I dont have the codect itself

(I remember having the gopro studio installed on my computer but since it didnt worked, and after uninstalling it my vegas's crash rate decreased a lot)


in the other hand, I try to look for more options, in this case, I found the suggestions.


I downloaded the lagarith codec,but when I render a 25 mb video clip (just 24 secs) , it rendered it into a 1.14 gb file (geez)

since my goal is to get a good intermediate codec, this is not suitable because i would want to render for example 10 mins of video just to go easier with vegas at the moment of editing longers projects (from 15 to 40 minutes or more).

the template doesnt allow me to set a bit rate or anything related so I have no control about the output file size.



then, I try with the MFX 422, but the problem with it is, that it doesnt allow me to set 1920x1080p @60fps, it only allows me to set 720p@60fps or 1080p@30fps.



so, After hours of googling around, reading and searching, I think I am running out of options, just for the record, my projects must be 1080p @60fps for internet (youtube) broadcast.

all i want is simple but still so hard to find, I guess i am just running out of options :(


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John Rofrano
Re: Delivery Formats, Editing Formats, what to do?
on Apr 10, 2015 at 11:29:47 am

[JF Baez] "I was looking for the CINEFORM codec, in my sony vegas it appears under the codec list, but when I try to render, nothing happened, it seems like I dont have the codect itself "
You need to install GoPro Studio for this to work. You might also need to change the Sony template to point to the GoPro Studio version of the codec because CineForm has changed it's name several times.
[JF Baez] "I downloaded the lagarith codec,but when I render a 25 mb video clip (just 24 secs) , it rendered it into a 1.14 gb file (geez) ...the template doesnt allow me to set a bit rate or anything related so I have no control about the output file size."
That's because it's lossless. It won't drop any bits so you can't tell it how many bits to use. It will use as many as it needs to not loose any information That's what a lossless codec does.
[JF Baez] "all i want is simple but still so hard to find, I guess i am just running out of options :("
Well... it is that simple if you own a Mac because you would use Apple ProRes 422, no questions asked. It's a pity that Sony doesn't provide a digital intermediary codec like Apple does but they have always leaned towards editing native formats.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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JF Baez
Re: Delivery Formats, Editing Formats, what to do?
on Apr 25, 2015 at 3:58:43 am

I am sorry for re-activate this thread again but I think I found a work-around at least to use with sony vegas, but I wanted to know what do you think???

I just discovered this format from the rendering options in vegas:

Sony MXF HDCAM SR 422...


despite the fact that I cant configure options for example bit-rate, but I can change the frame-rate, and the frame size as well, I am not sure if this is a good format at least to use in vegas (I am not sure if it is lossy, visually loss-less, but judging by the file sizes, I think is good.

I an still looking my way to find a work-around with mocha, I could get the cineform codec but it seems that the free version doesnt let you render videos in vegas. If I resolve something I will post because it can help people trying to find a solution.


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John Rofrano
Re: Delivery Formats, Editing Formats, what to do?
on May 10, 2015 at 2:51:04 pm

[JF Baez] "I could get the cineform codec but it seems that the free version doesnt let you render videos in vegas. If I resolve something I will post because it can help people trying to find a solution."
I have this working with just the Cineform codec from the free GoPro Studio. When you make your AVI template in Vegas Pro, make sure that you select CineForm Codec as the format and then press the Customize... button and select YUV 4:2:2 as the Encoded format and Medium as the Encoded quality. Then save this template and it will render.

As far as using Sony MXF HDCAM SR 422, will Mocha read this? If it will then it's probably fine to use since the bit rate is so high you should see much degradation in quality with just one round-trip.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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