FORUMS: list search recent posts

Video quality degrades

COW Forums : VEGAS Pro

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Pat Adams
Video quality degrades
on Dec 10, 2014 at 8:31:35 pm

I'm a Vegas novice. When I import a clip and put it in the Trimmer window, the quality is excellent, as sharp as on the original clip. However, when I trim a clip and add it to my timeline, the picture softens and becomes a little fuzzy.

Any advice?


Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades
on Dec 11, 2014 at 6:23:16 pm

[Pat Adams] "However, when I trim a clip and add it to my timeline, the picture softens and becomes a little fuzzy."
What are you using to determine this? If you are looking at the preview window in Vegas Pro then you can control how much quality it uses but be warned that greater quality means potentially jumpy playback. If your preview is set to Preview (Auto) it's OK for it to look a little fuzzy. It's just a preview. if you set it to Best (Full) it should be great quality again. The preview quality has nothing to do with the actual footage. When you render, it switches to Good (Full) by default so that's how your output will look. You should leave it at Preview (Auto) while editing for best playback performance.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades
on Dec 12, 2014 at 12:08:21 am

The problem is that my actual rendered video itself was soft/blurry looking - unlike the original imported clips - looking just as it did in Preview (Best), which I had been using. I just did switch to Preview (Auto) on your suggestion and will try it that way by re-importing several clips and seeing if they're sharper in the final rendered product.

Perhaps my Render Settings are not optimal either, since I've seen several different variations on what is considered "Best".

I may need advice on the definitive best render settings as well.

Thanks for your reply, John!


Return to posts index


John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades
on Dec 12, 2014 at 2:11:15 am

Changing the preview will have no affect on the output.

What render template did you use?

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades
on Dec 12, 2014 at 2:23:04 am

I've used a variety of settings, including variable bit rates, based on tutorials. This is the one I used just a few minutes ago. I'm using Vegas Pro 12, if that's important.



Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades
on Dec 12, 2014 at 2:37:14 am

That template should yield very good results.

Is your source video 720p?

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index


Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades
on Dec 12, 2014 at 3:38:27 am

The source video (.mp4) is:

Frame width: 720
Frame height:402

Data rate: 903kbps
Total bitrate: 1034kbps

Could the source be the problem?


Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades
on Dec 13, 2014 at 10:38:19 pm

[Pat Adams] "Could the source be the problem?"
Yes indeed. Your source video is 720x402 and you are rendering to 1280x720 which is 3 times the size! That's where your softness is coming from. Your source bitrate is 1034kbps which is also very low. The problem is definitely your source which is lower quality than SD and you're render it as HD. Try rendering to 720x402 and see if it looks better.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades
on Dec 14, 2014 at 1:16:17 am

I thought a vid could be rendered however one likes if the source and project were the same. I see I was wrong.

I did just as you suggest and rendered at 720x402. It looks pretty good but far from perfect so am I correct in assuming that considering the source video I'll never get great results?

I've added "Sharpen" from Media FX to all clips and that helped as well.

Thank you for your patience in replying. The technical side of Vegas is going to take some time to learn.

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.


Return to posts index


John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades
on Dec 14, 2014 at 2:14:05 am

[Pat Adams] "I thought a vid could be rendered however one likes if the source and project were the same. I see I was wrong."
There is a saying, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear". Creating resolution where there is none is hard to do. You can render smaller and get great results but any time to render larger there will be an averaging of pixels to create new ones. These will never be as accurate as if the original image was larger to begin with. It has nothing to do with the source and project being the same size and everything to do with the source not having enough pixels to accurately represent the image.
[Pat Adams] "I did just as you suggest and rendered at 720x402. It looks pretty good but far from perfect so am I correct in assuming that considering the source video I'll never get great results?"
Yea, pretty much. That's why I mentioned the low bit rate problem. Not only is your video small, it doesn't use a lot of data to represent the image. Let's do the math: 702x402 is 282,204 pixels. Each pixel requires 1 byte (8 bits) to represent it. 282,204 x 8 = 2,257,632 bits per frame. 2,257,632 bits x 30 frames per second is 67,728,960 bits per second. So uncompressed your video requires 66,142kbps and it's only using 1,034kbps. That means it must be compressed 66:1. That's a LOT of compression which resulted in a large loss of quality.

Video that has marginal video quality may look fine, but once you re-render it, the quality starts to degrade rapidly. That's another way of saying, Don't expect your rendered video to look as good as the source because there just isn't enough bits there to work with.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades- One more thing
on Dec 14, 2014 at 4:12:54 am

Got it! Your advice also made me realize I was doing something else wrong, but all in all, I'm much more satisfied with my results and happy now that I more or less understand the "why" of my problem.

Many thanks!

ETA:

If I have some clips in my movie that are 1920x1080p, e.g. and others only 720x402, I assume I should render according to the smallest size, but will the 1080 clips look worse this way, or will there be no change in the quality of the rendered video?


Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades- One more thing
on Dec 14, 2014 at 1:13:10 pm

[Pat Adams] "If I have some clips in my movie that are 1920x1080p, e.g. and others only 720x402, I assume I should render according to the smallest size, but will the 1080 clips look worse this way, or will there be no change in the quality of the rendered video?"
Rendering to a smaller size will always be fine because you are just eliminating data that you don't need. It's only when you need to create data that never existed that it affects the quality negatively.

One option you might want to look into is Boris Continuum Complete Unit Image Restoration. It has a plugin called UpRez that intelligently scales SD to HD and adds selective sharpening to give it more detail and not look as soft. That's what I would do if I had 1080p footage and just needed to add some SD to it to keep the whole video 1080p.

Here is a link to my Boris TV episode on how to use UpRez in Vegas Pro:

http://www.borisfx.com/videos/BCCVegas/Uprez.php

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index


Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades- One more thing
on Dec 14, 2014 at 4:07:52 pm

I love the UpRez and your tutorial is very easy to understand even for novices and technical "dummies" like me.

Definitely something I want to try.

Can't thank you enough for the incredibly helpful advice I've received here.

While I'm a on a roll, I see that 1920x1080 MKV files cannot be imported into Vegas. What would you suggest they be converted TO, in order to keep the high quality, yet be usable in Vegas?


Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades- One more thing
on Dec 14, 2014 at 5:35:53 pm

[Pat Adams] "While I'm a on a roll, I see that 1920x1080 MKV files cannot be imported into Vegas. What would you suggest they be converted TO, in order to keep the high quality, yet be usable in Vegas?"
That's a tough one because Windows doesn't have a good digital intermediary codec that you can use. I've been recommending AviDemux 2.5 to create MJPEG files with PCM audio. These seem to work well with Vegas Pro and uses the same JPEG compression that you use for your photos. I don't know if AviDemux supports MKV but here are the settings to try if it does:



Make sure that you use AviDemux 2.5 and not 2.6 because for some reason 2.6 makes MJPEG files that Vegas Pro cannot open.

Alternately, you can download the free GoPro Studio and convert your files to CineForm but I don't know if GoPro Studio accepts MKV files either. I've never used MKV myself so I've never tried this.

Finally you can probably use Handbreak to create high quality MP4 files using the AVC/H.264 codec that can be edited in Vegas Pro. Play around with each of these and see what works best for you.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades- Rendering Edit
on Dec 14, 2014 at 7:20:31 pm

Downloading Avidemux 2.5 right now.

So are AVI files best for Vegas?

My movie is looking much better already, thanks!

ETA:

I'd like to know if these are the proper render settings for my 720-402 movie. Should I allow Source to Adjust Frame Rate/Size?

Should the Constant Bit Rate be 14 million, or something else?








Return to posts index


John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades- Rendering Edit
on Dec 15, 2014 at 12:42:47 pm

[Pat Adams] "So are AVI files best for Vegas?"
AVI is the native container for Windows. It usually contains codecs that use intraframe compression (DV, MJPEG, CineForm, etc.). These two things put together are the best editing format for Vegas Pro.
[Pat Adams] "I'd like to know if these are the proper render settings for my 720-402 movie."
I would not set the Profile to High with video that small. I would use Main Profile. It's OK to check "allow source to adjust frame rate".
[Pat Adams] "Should the Constant Bit Rate be 14 million, or something else?"
That depends on what you plan to do with the video. 14Mbps is way too high for video that's so small. It's just wasting disk space. If you are loading it to YouTube then I guess it's OK because YouTube will re-encode it so you want it to be high. DVD's max out at 9Mbps and they are very high quality 720x480. I'm guessing you could get away with 6Mbps for 4Mbps and see no difference in quality. If you are concerned with file size I would not use constant bit rate as it wastes bits.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades- Rendering Edit
on Dec 15, 2014 at 2:38:40 pm

Excellent! I've watched so many YT tutorials to find out HOW to do things, but never WHY,i.e. bit rates. Your explanations have made understanding the "Why" simple and easy even for me.

This forum is a wonderful resource. Thanks again.


Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades- Rendering Edit
on Dec 15, 2014 at 3:13:34 pm

You're welcome. I find that understanding "why" helps people remember. I always try and start my tutorials with "why" you would want to do this before I show you "how". I wish the public school system worked like this. lol ;-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades- Rendering Edit
on Dec 15, 2014 at 3:43:37 pm

[John Rofrano] ". I find that understanding "why" helps people remember."

Absolutely.

While I'm on a roll, I just tried importing an AVI file, and was told there was a CODEC error.

I then d/l and installed Avi Codec Pack Pro and the file still cannot be imported into Vegas, giving me the same Codec error. Is there something more that needs to be installed?


Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: Video quality degrades- Rendering Edit
on Dec 15, 2014 at 4:39:20 pm

[Pat Adams] "I then d/l and installed Avi Codec Pack Pro and the file still cannot be imported into Vegas, giving me the same Codec error. Is there something more that needs to be installed?"
That as a really bad idea. Never install codec pack on your computer. I would uninstall it immediately but the damage may have already been done. This can cause all sorts of problems with Vegas Pro down the road. And as you have seen, it did not fix your problem.

The correct way to fix this is to get GSpot or MediaInfo and open the file with it and see what codec it needs. Then download the ONE codec from the manufacturer that you need.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Pat Adams
Re: Video quality degrades- Rendering Edit
on Dec 15, 2014 at 6:32:06 pm

I wasn't kidding when I said I was a dummy. Uninstalled and hoping nothing bad results. I should have asked first.

Will check out the tools you mention. Ta!


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]