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Background Images playback Extremely Slow

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Fernando Briamo
Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 9, 2009 at 8:12:43 pm

I'm actually having this problem. Before apply any emitters, the imported BG (AVI, TGA, TIFF, JPEG, anything Res. 1920x1080) is extremely slow to playback and so impossible to work correctly.
My Hardware is Gigabyte EX58-UD3R - Intel Core i7 920 - 12GB OCZ DDR3 1600MHz - Western Digital Raptor 300GB - Sapphire HD4890 Vapor-X 1GB - Windows 7 64bit
All drivers are up to date. The version of Particle is 3.0
Impossibile to use the last version of Particle 3.0.4 because another problem is occured. Impossible to rendering with Hardware Acceleration. I have disabled it and so the software works correctly...to rendering 8 seconds with one simple emitter, Particle wants 40 minutes.

Is there a solution? Or Particle is not able to work with recent Hardware and Operating System?


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 9, 2009 at 8:53:26 pm

Are you saying you disabled hardware acceleration and now it's very slow? That's exactly what I would expect.

Or are you saying that when you use 3.0.4 you must disable hardware acceleration in order for it to work?

I don't think there should be a difference between 3.0 and 3.0.4 in terms of hardware acceleration. If hardware acceleration works on 3.0 it should work fine on 3.0.4 too. Have you downloaded the latest video drivers for your graphics card?

Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 9, 2009 at 9:52:19 pm

Exactly! I must disable Hardware Acceleration in order for it to work.
With 3.0 version the rendering works correctly, on 3.0.4 version if I don't disable Hardware Acceleration, the rendering doesn't work.

Yes, I have the latest drivers on my vdieo card.
Why also the BG is very very slow to playback on both versions before apply anything emitter?


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 9, 2009 at 10:11:45 pm

Also If I set Hardware Acceleration to on before rendering the system is extremly slow to playback BG.
The principal problem is this...impossible to follow the frames to mount emitters correctly because the frames skip without a correct playback motion.


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 9, 2009 at 10:48:08 pm

If you're skipping frames, I suggest using an image sequence instead of an AVI/WMV. With an image sequence (numbered correctly) you'll never skip frames.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 9, 2009 at 10:56:16 pm

For skipping frames I mean that the motion playback is not fluid.


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 9, 2009 at 11:00:09 pm

Are you talking about pIllusionRender or particleIllusion itself? If hardware acceleration works in 3.0, it should work in 3.0.4 too in particleIllusion. If it doesn't, you need to tell me what's not working. Try a 640 x 480 project and see if it works. If it does, then it's probably a pIRender problem.

If you need to turn off hardware acceleration in pIRender I suggest using it only for final render -- render in pI3 at lower zoom (50% for instance) so that pIRender is never launched, until the final render.

On my laptop I get 4.7 fps with a 1920 x 1080 PNG image sequence. Not blazingly fast, but not super slow either.




Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 9, 2009 at 11:16:57 pm

I'm talking for version 3.0.4 about PIllusion Render for the problem of Rendering where the Hardware Acceleration must set to off to work correctly.
In PIllusion 3.0 the rendering works without any problem. In 3.0.4 I receive three different consequential errors and rendering stopped or produces black screens on frames sequence.

In version 3.0 I have not any rendering problem but the BG is very very slow to playback. This happens also in 3.0.4.


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 10, 2009 at 4:45:51 pm

Any possible solution?


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 10, 2009 at 6:20:02 pm

Sorry, but I still don't know if you mean particleIllusion or pIllusionRender.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 10, 2009 at 8:09:47 pm

Particle Illusion 3.0 has one executable file that is particleillusion.exe and so the application is only one to do anything...emitters editing and rendering.
In the Particle Illusion 3.0 I have only one broblem that is the BG extremly slow to playback also before load any emitter. BG tested with all formats from AVI to sequance of frames (TGA, BMP, PNG...)

Particle Illusions 3.0.4 works not only on one executable but when I start the rendering it opens pillusion render window that is another application of the principal software Particle Illsuion 3.0.4
In this version of particle Illsuion I have the same problem for BG and also the problem of rendering when it starts pillusion render to finalize.

I accept to work also on 3.0 but I want at least that the playback on BG is more faster and not frame by frame. Is not possible even to move the track on the movie because thereby the movie start to skip as if the Hardware Requirements for the software were not met.

(correct message..please remove previous message)


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 10, 2009 at 8:27:10 pm

particleIllusion 3.0 has 2 exe files too, one for pI3, one for pIR. The difference is that with 3.0.4 pIR will be called automatically when the output is too large for pI3. When using 3.0, you can't render full-size -- you'll need to launch pIR manually.

In pI3 3.0.4, open the Preferences, then uncheck the "use new method of loading AVIs" option. You should have the same performance with AVIs as you do with 3.0.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 10, 2009 at 11:29:39 pm

Sorry but in the directory of Particle Illusion 3.0 I have one only executable.
In any way I updated another time to 3.0.4
BG is very very slow in any way and the errors I receive when I try to render are successively 1) "Could not create File Writer Filter" 2) "Could not find an acceptable Pixel Format" 3) "Can't creat OpenGL context". Only disabling Hardware Acceleration on PillusionRender then decides to start.
But the principal problem is the impossibility to work with a Background Images. Too slow to scroll the timeline.


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 10, 2009 at 11:38:36 pm

Then you don't have a full install, or maybe you have 3.0 from when before pIRender was included? But how do you render the large images in 3.0 if you don't have pIRender?

If you can render a large output size in 3.0, then you should be able to do it in 3.0.4 too -- pIRender will never be used. So you must be doing something differently.

Did you turn off the "use new method of loading AVIs" option? When you do that, AVIs in 3.0.4 load exactly the same way they did in 3.0.

You said "But the principal problem is the impossibility to work with a Background Images. Too slow to scroll the timeline" but I still don't know what version you're talking about exactly. Is it both versions? 3.0.4 only?


Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 11, 2009 at 12:40:29 am

The problem of slow BG is for both versions.


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 10:17:33 am

Nothing to do?


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 2:08:11 pm

If you already tried changing the "do not use texture RAM for bg images" setting in the OpenGL page of prefs, then I have no more suggestions.

You can tell if the slowdown is happening because of drawing or because of file loading by zooming the stage out quite small (25% or less) with bg images/video loaded. If playback is much faster, then it's a drawing issue -- maybe you need updated drivers, or maybe your graphics hardware is not fast enough.

If zooming out makes no difference, then it's the loading and decoding of the file that is taking the most time, and there's not much you can do about that without changing hardware.

If you're using AVIs, maybe the codec used is the issue. Some older codecs are really slow. If you're using uncompressed AVIs, that could be the problem too.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 3:50:36 pm

My Graphics Card is Radeon HD4890 Vapor-X 1GB
I think that the VGA can do the playback because I use also BluRay and I have no problem.

In the particle I work not with AVI (I tried it too) but with sequence of frames TGA or TIFF or PNG @ 1920x1080
It recognizee the sequence but after does not work with it smoothly.

I tried to import frames Jpeg @ 640x480 but nothing changes.
I work in After Effects CS4 with very complex movie sequences @ 1920x1080 and I have not any problem of slowness.

I do not understand!


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 4:03:41 pm

If you can't get at least 25 fps playback with a 640x480 image sequence or AVI (with no emitters), then something is definitely wrong.

Do these steps (Do not do extra steps):

1) New project.
2) Open Project settings and make the stage size 640x480. Close project settings.
3) Add the "Sparks variations 05 (mb)" emitter from the Default.il3 library. (add it to the center of the stage)
4) Click "save output"
5) type "640test.png" as the name and click OK
6) When the render finishes, click "New Project" again.
7) Double-click the empty layer thumbnail image and select one of the "640test.png" images (and one).
8) Click "yes" to use the sequence
9) If it says the stage size is different, click "yes" to resize the stage.
10) hit spacebar to start playback.

What framerate are you getting? (Framerate is displayed in the status bar).

I get 29.5 fps. If I turn off hardware acceleration I get 20 fps.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Marcos Nicacio
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 7:45:49 pm

Hi guys, I have the same problem. I tried everything, .jpg with 50% compression, 30%, .avi, wmv but still really slow! =/
The fps is about 4.0 for you see how hard it's been to work with image sequence loaded on BG and this fps with any emmiter on scene.
I remember I used to load a image sequence and the speed was really good. I dont know what happened.

My hardware is fine, I use after cs4 with good speed as other applications like 3dsmax and photoshop cs3.

Tried to uinstal and install agian but nothing... view is really slow.

Thanks and hope we can solve it.


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 7:46:02 pm

I obtain 9,2 fps with Hardware Acceleration activated


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 8:00:42 pm

That's crazy. Your computer should be at least twice as fast as mine.

Is anybody else running a 64-bit Windows having this problem? (I may need to create a new post about this)

I don't have any more suggestions right now.

Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 11:09:40 pm

Windows 7 64bit may be the problem?


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 11:12:39 pm

Does exist a 64bit version of Particle Illusion?


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 11:14:51 pm

No.

Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 12, 2009 at 11:20:18 pm

So is possible that the OS is not supported by Particle Illusion?
Is incompatible with Windows 7 64bit? Or is not optimized for new cpu Intel Core i7 920?


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Marcos Nicacio
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 13, 2009 at 12:35:59 am

I installed the winxp 32 bits and PI and made the test loading a image sequence of .jpgs without any compression and worked great! playback in real time... Then we conclude that particle illusion has some limitations to work 100% on 64 bits systems. =/

Hope this can help you guys!

Thanks



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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 13, 2009 at 10:35:33 am

It's incredible!!!!
Particle Illsuion is a software that produces effects for films and tv series!
Is possible that the Industrial of visual effects uses 32bit Workstation with all the limitations that this entails?

I have 12GB of RAM to work with 3D Software (Maya, 3DS Max and others) and After Effects CS4 for visual effects. With any of these I have problems and system works correctly with all at 64bit and Quad Core CPU.
Particle Illusion with its accreditation has these problems to work with new Hardware and new OS at 64bit??

I DON'T BELIEVE!!! IS NOT POSSIBLE!!!


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 13, 2009 at 11:52:09 pm

Anyone use 64bit OS with Particle?


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Terry Esslinger
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 14, 2009 at 12:11:48 am

Running 64 bit Vista Home premium on i7 computer 6Gig ram. I find no difference between playback with hardware excelleration on or disabled. Both will run with .avi between 2.5 and 6 fps with predominance in lower levels. No emitters applied, just background .avi. Video card is ATI Radeon HD 4800 series.


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 14, 2009 at 12:15:16 am

Ok, so apparently there is a problem with this in Vista 64 and Win 7 64 bit. Anybody using XP 64 with the same problem?

Image sequence is the same too, or is it AVI only for you?


Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Terry Esslinger
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 14, 2009 at 6:31:21 am

I notice that the PI is installed in the 32bit programs running on this 64 bit system. Thats where it installed by default.


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 14, 2009 at 1:28:46 pm

I knew reading on the web that the Wondertouch granted only on request a 64bit special version of Particle Illusion.
Is it true?


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 14, 2009 at 2:50:51 pm

No. You probably saw very old messages from before 3.0.2 was released.

There is no 64-bit version of particleIllusion.

Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 14, 2009 at 7:43:03 pm

I have a question.
In what way the Industrial of VFX Films uses Particle Illusion?

I suppose that their systems are made with other components that are not PC based.
If Particle on their systems works correctly with format cinema background...in what way Particles works? At 32bit with 4GB RAM limitation?
I don't understand this...how it's possible?


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Marcos Nicacio
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 15, 2009 at 3:04:54 am

I was using win xp 64 and it was really slow, 4fps. Playback only work realtime on 32 bits system.


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Keith Patton
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 15, 2009 at 3:35:54 am

I don't believe it is limited to 64-bit OS either. I'm running 3.0.4 PI and am having trouble running a layer with any sort of background (ie an avi, png sequence, anything).

For example 2 layers, layer 1 = emitter, layer 2 = background sequence. 1920 * 1080 resolution.
Both layers visible = 1.6 fps
layer 1 visible = 30 fps
layer 2 visible = 1.6 fps

And yes I have the most up to date drivers and hardware accelerated.

System:
Vista Home Premium 32-bit
1TB HDD
GeForce 9800 GT 512mb
Intel Core 2 Quad 3.2Ghz


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 16, 2009 at 8:43:00 am

The software even though it is professional was probably programmed very badly.

It's incredible for this problem that affects different users there isn't any solution or corrective patch.

Who has a 64bit OS can not work properly. Particle is not able to playback the background images over 4fps at 1920x1080 Res.

Lst Generation QuadCore CPU, large amount of RAM, powerful VGA with large amount of RAM too is useless!


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 16, 2009 at 1:06:40 pm

Now that I am aware of this issue, we will start investigating it. Believe it or not, you are the first to report this problem to us.

I don't know when a solution will be available, or if it's even possible to fix in 3.0, but we'll do our best.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 16, 2009 at 1:35:42 pm

Thanks in any way for your support.
I hope that as soon as possible one day will be there a solution because I'm shooting a short film and Particle was essential to the success of the project.

Now maybe to found an alternative but Particle is very special and I don't know if really exist a valid alternative software like Particle.


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Nov 19, 2009 at 1:28:35 pm

Any news about investigation? Do you discovered anything?


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Fernando Briamo
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Dec 3, 2009 at 11:15:53 am

up


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Paul Curtis
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Jun 20, 2010 at 1:48:16 pm

Out of interest, did you resolve this issue? I am having the same issues having got a spanky new 64 bit machine.
Paul


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Bart Molen
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:55:41 pm

Curious, has there been a solution for window7 64? I'm having the same issues.

gripps.net


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Alan Lorence
Re: Background Images playback Extremely Slow
on Apr 27, 2012 at 2:36:14 pm

There are a couple of issues here. First, what format is the video? pI3 (on any version of Windows) has better AVI support than WMV support I think, although the difference is probably in if you have the "use new method of loading AVIs" preference checked or not. If it's not checked, you won't be able to load DV AVIs, but I think you'll get better performance when loading other AVI files. WMV always uses the "new" method of loading, which has support for more formats but is slower.

There could also be OpenGL issues when drawing the frame. The "do not use texture RAM for bg images" Preference is the one that controls this. Try it both checked and unchecked and see if it makes a difference in framerates when no emitter is present.

Hope this helps.

Alan.

....................
Alan Lorence
Product Manager
GenArts, Inc.
http://www.genarts.com
http://www.wondertouch.com


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