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Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow

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Mark Davis
Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 24, 2008 at 1:34:37 pm

I’ve done some searches, but haven't seen anything that was finished. I’ve done DV work before using AVI or frame server and all worked fine.
I'm working with HDV or mt2 video files in Vegas and want to put Particle effect to work on it, but I'm having problems finding the right workflow. Using framserver is crashing PI 3.0.2. I also tried it on a PC at work with version3.0.3 demo and it crashes there too.
I’ve tried using the huffy codec and other codec, but only some would show up in PI, but playback was very slow, and others would just show nothing in PI.
I have checked the project and preferences settings and have matched them to the video file, but it still played slow.
I was hoping that someone has worked with HDV type files in PI and have had better success then me and is willing to share their workflow.
Thanks Mark.


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Alan Lorence
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 24, 2008 at 9:13:26 pm

If frameserver is crashing pIllusion, open your pIllusion prefs and uncheck the "use new method of loading AVIs" option. Or check it if it's not.

See if that helps. Make sure you post your results here please.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Mark Davis
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 25, 2008 at 11:51:21 am

Alan thanks for the response. I put a check mark on "use new method of loading AVIs" option. This solved the problem with frame server crashing PI. I'm glad for that.
But I'm still having the problem with the way the background video looks, it look as if it is more square then widescreen. As if the aspect ratio is wrong. The video I'm bringing in is 1440x1080. I have the preferences and project setting at 1440x1080, but it still looks like it is close to square. Is there something else I’m supposed to check off or on?
Also the video plays very, very slow. I opened a project I did with DV 720x480 and it played fine. Any suggestions. What is a good working workflow of 1440x1080 projects?

I have a softball video I would like to use PI on. But was shot in HDV
I used it with a Volleyball video and everyone really liked it. But was shot in DV


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Mark Davis
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 11:26:04 am

So has no one done anything with HDV projects?


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 4:24:55 pm

> So has no one done anything with HDV projects?

I have but I use the CineForm codec for my HDV files. Perhaps because you are frameserving, PI isn't getting enough information about the format. 1440x1080 has a pixel aspect of 1.333. Perhaps PI is thinking it is 1.0 by mistake? Try telling PI that the footage is 1920x1080 (which is the same as 1440x1080 @ 1.333 PAR) but the PAR is 1.0. In other words, use the 1920x1080 project settings and see if that fixes the aspect problem.

Alternately, render the footage in Sony Vegas using the HDV Intermediary templates and it will use the CineForm codec. When you load these as the background into a PI3 1440x1080 project it will correctly maintain the right aspect (at least it does for me).

~jr

http://www.vasst.com/

http://www.johnrofrano.com/



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Mark Davis
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 5:02:24 pm

John thanks for responding,
I followed your last statement about rendering out of Vegas. I tried that, but when I bring the video into PI3, I get an error "Could not connect source filter to grabber" after clicking on OK , I get " ---------------------------
particleIllusion
---------------------------
The framerate of this movie (0.00 fps) is not
the same as the project framerate (29.97 fps).

The movie will still be used, but results may
not be what you intended.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

and then


particleIllusion
---------------------------
Image is not the same size as the stage.
Make stage same size as image?
---------------------------
Yes No
---------------------------
and then some more error messages.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong. I chose Save as type "AVI, Template "HDV 1080-60i intermediate"
everything else is at default, but I took off the audio.
Is there something else I'm not doing right?


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Alan Lorence
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 5:14:24 pm

Mark -- if you can send a short (10-frame) sample movie to support at wondertouch dot com we can check why you're getting that error message. We're beta testing an update (3.0.4 for Windows) right now, and it's possible we've already fixed this.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Mark Davis
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 6:16:27 pm

Hi Alan,

I have just sent an e-mail with a file attachment of the clip you asked for.
Thanks again.
Mark


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Alan Lorence
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 6:56:26 pm

Got it, and we're checking into it.

Use ANY codec you can -- DivX, xvid, Lagarith at the square pixel equivalent size (since particleIllusion works with square pixels only).

You'll be using the video in pIllusion as reference only, and will then want to render just the particles with an alpha channel, and composite onto original video in Vegas.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Alan Lorence
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 7:27:03 pm

ok, are you sure you have the Cineform codec installed? On a machine that doesn't, I get the same errors you do. On a machine that has a demo version of the codec installed, it works fine in pI3.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 8:08:48 pm

> On a machine that has a demo version of the codec installed, it works fine in pI3.

Alan,

I believe this is the key. Sony Vegas ships with a special version of the Cineform codec that can be decoded by any application but can only be encoded by Sony Vegas as a host. If pI is making sure it can encode with this codec that would cause a failure.

If you are testing with a demo of Cineform then that would work because the demo both encodes and decodes. So it may be the special licensing arrangement between Cineform and Sony that causes this strange behavior.

I forgot I have the full version of Cineform Connect HD on my system in addition to Sony Vegas so this is probably why it works for me. I will say that one of the reasons I have Cineform Connect HD is because it provides an excellent codec for use in stand-alone post processing applications like pI. Well worth the investment for someone who is working in HD.

Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Alan Lorence
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 6:51:07 pm

John -- can you send me (at wondertouch support) a SMALL (10-frame) movie using the Cineform codec that will load in particleIllusion? Please make sure that it does load in particleIllusion before you send it.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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Alan Lorence
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 7:27:35 pm

John -- forget it -- not needed anymore.



Alan.

http://www.wondertouch.com


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 8:01:28 pm

OK on the not needed anymore.

I do have the full version of Cineform Connect HD on my PC so it is possible that this does not work with the Cineform codec from Sony Vegas alone. You may have to purchase one of the Cineform products to get the fully licensed codec.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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mark davis
Re: Sony Vegas HDV to PI 3 workflow
on Jun 27, 2008 at 11:38:07 pm

John, Alan,
Ok this all makes since now. I'm at home now testing with my main editing system, and I'm getting the same problems here. John I think your right about the Sony Vegas Cineform HD codec. By it self, I don't thing it is working very well. I did some more searching and found I'm not along with this problem.
I get no errors in Vegas when I render using the codec, but I can't play it at all in anything outside of Vegas. Also when I put the renderd file in a new timeling in Vegas, it does not look good, has streaks of blue, red and white all though it, like noise.

John, just to ask, in your workflow, I think you said that if you render out of Vegas timeline with the HDV 1080-60i intermediate template and video formate Cinform HD Codec V2.8? (not sure what you have, this is what I have) with aspect ration 1.333. Bring this into PI background you don't get an error, right? and is the background look widescreen? or more square?
Alan said that PI only works with squar pixel.

Alan - Since I'm new to HD working with PI. I have to ask, cuz I think I'm having a brain fart with this. So I have to ask.
Sould I be doing this and will it work. I render out of Vegas with the HDV 1080-60i intermediate template with a codec that will play in PI, but change the aspect ratio to 1.0 instead of 1.333?
Bring that file into PI and with project settings 1440x1080, edit the PI effect I want, then render out as PNG, no background, save alpha.
So when I gring it back into Vegas and overlay it on a video. Will the aspect ration be correct? will everthing line up correctly?
In a HDV 1440x1080 1.333 project?

Also I found that rendering with Divx 6.8.2 codec w/1080HD profile, Sony YUV codec, MW Media video 9, Huffyuv 2.1.1 all work with PI, but all aspect ratios looked 1.0 instead of 1.333 that I rendared at, should this be?



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