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Anyway to Transparent Background

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Majnoo
Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 3, 2006 at 3:03:23 pm

hey i'll very use full if i can make my whole project with transparent background coz after rendering i can use them in any file to appear very beautifully as we can do in Bluff Titler anyway i am a User of Vegas 6.0d and i have Particle Illusion 3.0a is there anyway that i can do this

Thanks for your Time

ALi


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Ken Plotin
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 3, 2006 at 5:10:24 pm

Just turn off the background button for your layer (the stage window will reflect this) and render to a format with an alpha channel.
Hope this helps.
Ken
the Screen Skins guy


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 5, 2006 at 2:54:01 am

Turn off any BG images in the comp. when you render, for format, Choose Tiff, TGA, or PNG, and then in the options, choose save Alpha channel, and remove Black BG

----------------------------------------
Aharon Rabinowitz
aharon(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
http://www.allbetsareoff.com
----------------------------------------
Creative Cow Master Series DVD
particleIllusion Fusion Volume 1
available @ http://www.pIllusionFusion.com


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LynxFX
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 5, 2006 at 6:16:50 pm

No way to do a 32bit AVI with Alpha enabled? That would be the most ideal. I work with Vegas as well and for the moment I just render on black and do an overlay in Vegas. It works, but isn't perfect.

With programs like Bluff Titler and Serious Magic Ultra supporting alpha in AVI, surely it can be included with PI.


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 5, 2006 at 6:38:08 pm

[LynxFX] "No way to do a 32bit AVI with Alpha enabled?"

Not currently. Frankly, using uncompressed AVI seems pointless when Quicktime with animation compression is just as good and smaller. If I could have what I want, that would be what I'd like to see in pIllusion QT for both PC and Mac with Alpha.

[LynxFX] "I work with Vegas as well and for the moment I just render on black and do an overlay in Vegas. It works, but isn't perfect."

That's becasue you're using an imperfect method. Render with the Remove Black BG option, and you will have a Straight Render with an Alpha - a much better choice for compositing.

If you are using particles that are both intense and non intense, then things get comlicated. In that case, even though this is for After Effects, see the following tutorial on "Create Non-Intense Alpha," which may or may not help depending on what transfer modes area vaialble in vegas (I don't use it, so I don't know).

http://www.wondertouch.com/tutorials/aharon/CNIA/cnia.html

----------------------------------------
Aharon Rabinowitz
aharon(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
http://www.allbetsareoff.com
----------------------------------------
Creative Cow Master Series DVD
particleIllusion Fusion Volume 1
available @ http://www.pIllusionFusion.com


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LynxFX
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 5, 2006 at 10:14:28 pm

Frankly, using uncompressed AVI seems pointless when Quicktime with animation compression is just as good and smaller. If I could have what I want, that would be what I'd like to see in pIllusion QT for both PC and Mac with Alpha.

6 of one, half a dozen of another. I only used AVI as an example because currently that is all that PI supports. If they put in Quicktime support with alpha available I would support that as well.

That's becasue you're using an imperfect method. Render with the Remove Black BG option, and you will have a Straight Render with an Alpha - a much better choice for compositing.

But that only renders out individual frames that you then have to recombine into a sequence. Just more steps. Most of the stuff, overlay or luminance key works fine for a quick and dirty job. If I need a well done composite I bring the footage into PI and render the sequence back out from there. It would just be nice to be able to render a full sequence out to AVI or Quicktime with an alpha channel.

Thanks for that tutorial on color fringing. That will come in handy.


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 5, 2006 at 10:20:16 pm

[LynxFX] "6 of one, half a dozen of another."

No, it's not. That expression means they are of equal value, and that's not the case. Quicktime files with Animation compression and an alpha channel can be signifficantly smaller (we're talking Gigabytes here) then an uncompressed AVI.

[LynxFX] "But that only renders out individual frames that you then have to recombine into a sequence."

You make that sound like it's difficult or time consuming. While I don't use begas, it's my understanding from Elvis' comments here thaty you can just impoirt them as a sequence and that it's simple to do. In AE, you just select one image from the sequence and then tell it that it's part of a sequence, and AE does the rest, in seconds.

Is that not how it works in Vegas?

----------------------------------------
Aharon Rabinowitz
aharon(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
http://www.allbetsareoff.com
----------------------------------------
Creative Cow Master Series DVD
particleIllusion Fusion Volume 1
available @ http://www.pIllusionFusion.com


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Elvis Deane
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 5, 2006 at 10:36:08 pm

Yeah, Vegas does have an Open Still Image Sequence checkbox when you select the first image of a sequence. It can't write out image sequences with alphas, but it can import them no problem.

--
Elvis Deane!

The Apprentice Magician's Guide to particleIllusion


The particleIllusion FAQ


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Alan Lorence
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 6, 2006 at 2:06:57 am

Does Premiere and/or Premiere Pro do it the same way, with a checkbox? If so, what is this option called? If not, how does it do it?




Alan.
wondertouch


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Lynxfx
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 6, 2006 at 3:57:13 am

No, it's not. That expression means they are of equal value, and that's not the case. Quicktime files with Animation compression and an alpha channel can be signifficantly smaller (we're talking Gigabytes here) then an uncompressed AVI.
Oh give me a freakin break. Where's that rolleyes icon when you need it. The end result is the same and I could give a rats ass about file size for this. You like your quickietime and that's fine and dandy. We were both talking about getting an end result and we'll leave it at that.

You make that sound like it's difficult or time consuming.
I actually believed it was until I saw Elvis' comment. I didn't notice the image sequence toggle before and it brings them in as a single movie file no less! Alpha and all. You learn something new every day. Since it works that well, even with intense particles, my quest for alpha'd AVI or...cough...MOV isn't that important with PI. ;)

Yeah, Vegas does have an Open Still Image Sequence checkbox when you select the first image of a sequence. It can't write out image sequences with alphas, but it can import them no problem.
--
Elvis Deane!

Thanks for the tip! I never saw that checkbox before. What I've done in the past is actually bringing the image sequence into flash and rendering out alpha'd swf files which Vegas also handles beautifully. Glad to see that isn't needed.


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Alan Lorence
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 6, 2006 at 11:02:18 am

Aharon was just trying to be accurate, so others who read these posts either now or in the future via the archives don't get the wrong idea -- it wasn't a jab at you.

Not knowing that all video editing software can handle image sequences the same way as movies (they both turn into multi-frame clips upon loading) is a common "problem". It's surprising the number of times this comes up.



Alan.
wondertouch


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 6, 2006 at 12:06:09 pm

There was no offense intended.


Look, it was clear to me from your comments about assembling a sequence that you were realitively new to working with video (and that's not a jab) or at least the software youre using. It sounded to me like you didn't realize that there was a difference between quicktime and avi, and while filesize may not be a big deal for you, I only have a 200 GB of space, and for uncompressed AVI, that's not actually that much.

1 minute of uncompressed video is 1.8 GB. A quicktime video can be then half that (even less), depending on the video. My tutorials at 15 minutes long, usually come in as about 3-5 GB. Uncompressed AVI they'd be closer to 18 GB. That may not seem like a big deal to you, but it is, and as you do this more and more, you'll eventually realize that.

So, we're not talking about even close to the same end result, regardless of your particular needs, and that's why I made the clarification. Not to put you down.

Furthermore, you can take these image sequences into Vegas, and then output as a QT (Animation comrpession) with Alpha, and the erase the original image sequence so you have it stored as a Quicktime. Image sequences tend to slow down NLE's because they are loading and unloading images at every frame, whereas with a quicktime, the video is loaded in at the beginning. Obviosuly huge files will also slow things down a bit, so a quicktime movie is a better option becasue there's less overhead.

----------------------------------------
Aharon Rabinowitz
aharon(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
http://www.allbetsareoff.com
----------------------------------------
Creative Cow Master Series DVD
particleIllusion Fusion Volume 1
available @ http://www.pIllusionFusion.com


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LynxFX
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 6, 2006 at 5:03:02 pm

Gotcha guys. No offense taken. :)

Looks like I will be working with image sequences from PI a lot more now. It does seem like one of those items that gets glossed over in any books or tutorials. Easy to miss or in my case, not even think about with my NLE.

I take it Final Cut 5 can take in image sequences as well?


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Elvis Deane
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 6, 2006 at 5:20:23 pm

I don't think Final Cut brings them in as a clip, though things may have changed since the last time I used it. You used to have to open the sequence up in Quicktime Pro, and render out a Quicktime file to import into Final Cut.

--
Elvis Deane!

The Apprentice Magician's Guide to particleIllusion


The particleIllusion FAQ


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AHaron Rabinowitz
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 6, 2006 at 5:31:15 pm

I've delivered image sequences to final cut, but I have no idea what they did with it. I think it can read them though.

----------------------------------------
Aharon Rabinowitz
aharon(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
http://www.allbetsareoff.com
----------------------------------------
Creative Cow Master Series DVD
particleIllusion Fusion Volume 1
available @ http://www.pIllusionFusion.com


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LynxFX
Re: Anyway to Transparent Background
on Apr 6, 2006 at 6:37:05 pm

Ok I'll give it a shot. We use two editors here, Vegas and Final Cut. I'm all PC while my associate is all Mac. I've given him some PI renders before and they never really worked great due to the method I gave them. We'll have to try an image sequence to see how it works out. He's never tried importing an image sequence before in FC.


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