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Tri-level Sync through a video DA

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Daniel Edelman
Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 23, 2009 at 12:27:16 am

I plan to run an Evertz 7750SRG-HD tri-level sync generator through a Sigma VDA26A video DA. I need to send the 1080i/59.94 sync to multiple pieces of gear (Avid Nitris, DVCPro HD, and HDCam). We use another VDA26A to route back burst to all the SD gear, so in theory this should work fine. But I'd like to hear some feedback before start surgery on the rack.
Thanks,
Daniel Edelman


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Bob Zelin
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 23, 2009 at 4:02:11 pm

I have done this exact combination countless times. Tri Level sync, and specifically the Evertz 7750 card works perfectly with the sigma VDA26.

But these days, since the Evertz is insanely expensive, I use the AJA GEN10. And since Sigma (one of my favorite companies) is fizzling out, I have unfortunately switched to inexpensive Kramer VM80 video DA's for the application you describe.

bob Zelin




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Daniel Edelman
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 23, 2009 at 4:42:24 pm

Great to hear it, Bob. Luckily I have both of these items at my disposal so I'll be hooking them up tonight after the editors leave.
On another note, I read somewhere that blackburst is an acceptable (but not preferable) reference for 1080i59. Any comments? In our case we're digitizing from DVCProHD and outputting to HDCam (via an Avid Nitris) at the aforementioned settings.
-Daniel

Avid MC 2.2.15 Adrenaline, Unity 3.5. HP xw8200: dual 3.4ghz processors, 3gb ram, nVidia Quadro FX 1400, 160gb SATA internal HD


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Bob Zelin
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 24, 2009 at 12:35:29 am

On another note, I read somewhere that blackburst is an acceptable (but not preferable) reference for 1080i59. Any comments? In our case we're digitizing from DVCProHD and outputting to HDCam (via an Avid Nitris) at the aforementioned settings.
-Daniel


REPLY -
Hi Daniel,
I have been specifically told my Michael Phillips at AVID to absolutely use Tri Level sync for your application. AND I am the poster child for the AJA GEN10 tri level sync generator. With that said, let me assure you that 100% of the time I NEVER EVER EVER use tri level sync with the AJ-HD1400 or AJ-HD1200 when working with an AVID Nitris, AVID DS, AVID Nitris DX, AVID Adrenaline, AJA Kona or any other HD product that is working at 59.94. I always use the Sigma BSG-26N (and these days the NTSC output of the AJA GEN10).

Your HDW-M2000 or HDW-1800 will be very happy with NTSC sync. Just make sure that you set your menus in the VTR correctly, or you will get the blue flashing STOP lamp .

Bob Zelin




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Daniel Edelman
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 24, 2009 at 4:06:05 pm

[Bob Zelin] "With that said, let me assure you that 100% of the time I NEVER EVER EVER use tri level sync with the AJ-HD1400 or AJ-HD1200 when working with an AVID Nitris, AVID DS, AVID Nitris DX, AVID Adrenaline, AJA Kona or any other HD product that is working at 59.94. I always use the Sigma BSG-26N (and these days the NTSC output of the AJA GEN10). "

Interesting. So why do you choose NTSC instead of the tri level for 1080i59? Do you find the NTSC to be be more stable? Please enlighten me.
-Daniel

BTW The decks are an HDW-1800 and an AJ-HD1400



Avid MC 2.2.15 Adrenaline, Symphony Nitris 1.6.5, Unity 3.5. HP xw8200 Turnkey systems. AJ-HD1400, 1200, HDW-1800, DVW-A500


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Joey Burnham
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 24, 2009 at 6:53:43 pm

[Daniel Edelman] "So why do you choose NTSC instead of the tri level for 1080i59? Do you find the NTSC to be be more stable?"

I can't answer your question but I can tell you this. We almost work exclusively in 1080p23.98 for HD and our Tri-Level feed is fine for this. The moment I switch to 1080i59.94 on the HDSR I have to pull the sync patch out to get it to work. I don't know why but the machine just won't lock up with the Tri-Level. Instead I just have it pull sync from my system.

Funny thing is that I don't have to do this on the D5 machine.

Joey



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Bob Zelin
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 24, 2009 at 9:19:48 pm

So why do you choose NTSC instead of the tri level for 1080i59? Do you find the NTSC to be be more stable? Please enlighten me.
-Daniel


REPLY -
it's not more stable. In a small facility, no one wants to spend any money. This means no patch bays, no video DA's, no nothing. The AJA GEN10 is cheaper than a Sigma BSG-26N, so the Sigma wins, even in an all standard def facility.

The CORRECT way to do this is to take one NTSC black output of the GEN10 and go into DA # 1 (lets say a Sigma VDA26 or Kramer VM80), an take output # 5 of the AJA GEN10 (set it to tri level sync), and feed this into video DA # 2. Now you have multiple NTSC black feeds, and multiple tri level sync feeds. You bring these up to a patch bay, and normal the reference inputs of most of your equipment to NTSC black. BUT then you have a HD job that requires tri level sync, so without having to do anything other than pop in 2 patch cords, your AJA Kona and HD VTR now have tri level sync. But will anyone do this, these days - NO - no one wants to buy any gear.

When you say "but but but" - I have seen too many times where people set the GEN10 to tri level HD sync 59.94, and then send this signal into the Ref Video input of a Sony Digi Beta VTR.

Bob Zelin




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Daniel Edelman
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 24, 2009 at 9:34:50 pm

Ok, now I understand. Luckily This is a medium-sized facility and all the gear I need for this endeavor is here already, just not setup properly: We one 2 Evertz boxes, one in each online room. But this neglects the decks in the machine room. Thats where this whole project stems from.

[Bob Zelin] "...Now you have multiple NTSC black feeds, and multiple tri level sync feeds. You bring these up to a patch bay, and normal the reference inputs of most of your equipment to NTSC black..."

This is exactly how I have it setup.
We'll be doing some HD outputs tonight, so it will get 2 or 3 rigorous tests. We'll see how it works out.

Joey: That is strange to hear about the SR. Did you change the setting to HD Ref? I've made that mistake before.


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Joey Burnham
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 24, 2009 at 9:36:28 pm

Ha! With that VTR it's honestly easier to just yank out the cord.
Best,
Joey



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Daniel Edelman
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on Jun 24, 2009 at 10:03:37 pm

Ah men, brother! At least it's not a HDW-F500: 25 keystrokes to do anything!

Avid MC 2.2.15 Adrenaline, Symphony Nitris 1.6.5, Unity 3.5. HP xw8200 Turnkey systems. AJ-HD1400, 1200, HDW-1800, DVW-A500


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jay agoglia
Re: Tri-level Sync through a video DA
on May 6, 2013 at 5:01:59 pm

HI All,

I am revisiting Sync configuration on this post.

I currently have A:

-GRASS VALLEY SCB-200N
-AJA GEN10
-VIDEOTEK VDA 16A (da)

We are moving our facility to a larger space and I would like to set the Reference and sync up properly. Yes, Bob we have sync hard wired up to our Betas, Digi betas, SR, D5, Network encoders (Pipeline, clipmail)and all.

I ordered Red BNC cable to make brand new Reference only cables and again hoping to get pointed in the right direction for this project.

According to what I read and to this post. I think I should design a dedicated patch-bay for Sync/ref only.

Questions on connection:

What should receive NTSC Black Burst and/or Tri-level sync?

what about the gear that takes both an NTSC SD signal and an 1080i 59.94 HD signal?

Should I normalize ALL SD/HD gear to the GRASS VALLEY SCB-200N NTSC black burst signal and manually patch the tri-level when needed like advised in this post? When exactly do I want to patch in the Tri-level?

What should out TEKTRONIX WVR 7200 receive?

Should the AJA GEN10 be normalized to anything in this design?

We very rarely work in 23.98/24p its always in 29.97 or 59.94

Thank you as always and looking forward to your response.

Gear:

-GRASS VALLEY SCB-200N
-AJA GEN10
-VIDEOTEK VDA 16A (da)

8, UVW1800-Beta SP
1, AJ-D650-DVC PRO
2, digi betas
1, SRW-5500- HD CAM SR
1, AJ_HD370-D5
1, AJHD1400-DVC PRO HD
2, AJA KONA LHI CAPTURE/PLAYOUT CARDS
SD network encoders
HD network encoders


-Jason

Jason Agoglia
QC Manager
On The Spot Media


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