FORUMS: list search recent posts

International Spec and Standards

COW Forums : Broadcasting

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
John Grote, Jr.
International Spec and Standards
on Jun 1, 2009 at 1:39:48 pm

Good day all,

I was hoping that I could get pointed in the right direction in finding any good resources for International Specs and Standards. I have a job that is coming up that will be done domestically in the US, but I will also have to deliver international versions to Europe and possibly Japan.


Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

John


Return to posts index

Joey Burnham
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 1, 2009 at 6:20:59 pm

HD or SD?

Europe (and I'm pretty sure Japan too) are PAL. For SD you just produce your master in NTSC (unless you are starting off with PAL source material) and send to a post house for a PAL transfer.

With HD it could be any HD format out there. You would need to ask the client for specs.
Joey



Return to posts index

Nick Griffin
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 1, 2009 at 8:40:22 pm

[Joey Burnham] "Europe (and I'm pretty sure Japan too) are PAL."

Umm, No on Japan. Japan is NTSC just with a 0 pedestal instead of the 7.5 IRE used in the US. I believe (but have NOT DONE THIS MYSELF) that you can simply re-set the pedestal on your NLE to make an NTSC-J program.

Most of Europe is PAL, but some countries are SECAM and scattered around the globe are some countries where the variant of PAL-M is standard.

Google "Global Video Formats" for a complete list of what's what and where's where.

I also agree that for broadcast-quality work you will get the best results using a facility with hardware-based standards conversion. Last time I checked the boxes which do this sell in the $25k range.



Return to posts index


Baz Leffler
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 2, 2009 at 12:18:37 am

[Nick Griffin] "Most of Europe is PAL, but some countries are SECAM"

My understanding was that France and USSR were Secam but are now PAL but transmit in PAL and Secam; but their studio's are definitely PAL (if not HD)

Baz

What would I do without the 'UNDO' button!!!!


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 2, 2009 at 9:31:57 pm

Hi John,
I will be the only one to answer you in my typical insulting way.
What kind of question is this? If you rely on the responses of the other esteemed posters, you will go broke. In Europe, in Japan, EVERYWHERE - there are a MILLION types of tape formats, and data formats - both HD, and SD. And in every market, (certainly here in the US), every TV station has different delivery specs. You just can't say "well Japan wants NTSC-J standard def on Digi Beta". Who the hell can make a statment like this. You need to find out the SPECIFIC DELIVERY SPECS. Do you think that you can deliver to NBC, ABC, CBS and Discovery Channel all the same tape format ? They will throw it back into your face. THEY TELL YOU what they want, and it's your job to CALL THEM and find out what they want.

Bob Zelin




Return to posts index

John Grote, Jr.
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 3, 2009 at 2:10:25 pm

Point well taken, hence the posting here for those people that have had to deliver to ABC, NBC, Fox, TLC, Discovery, etc and the people that may have to deal with these companies in the future. Yes, they can take anything from the mini dv, dv-cam, dvc-pro, dvc-pro hd, through HD Cam (I could keep going if you like), but depending on what day it is, or what their tech center has deemed acceptable for that week or month, it can and will change. Hell, I still pull shots off of 3/4" tape from time to time and some clients still want a VHS tape for viewing.

Yes, I have the PBS specs, I have the Discovery/TLC specs and I have the Nat Geo specs. Why, because I am not an idiot, I am a professional. Hmm, but I do like to here what else maybe going on around the country and the world, so that I can be better prepared.

Ah, then we enter the compression schemes for making files to deliver via the web, dvd, etc. It is enough to drive a person crazy, but if I don't ask the question to others, who will give me some sort of direction. The client?

My post was to discover what some of us out there have encountered and maybe learn something from each other.

So yes, I was the hellion that has made this statement. And guess what, small minds live in their small worlds. I'd like to broaden my horizon and my world, and to get an answer, you must ask the question. No one gave you the authority to judge if the question was relevant or not. So, if you can't be part of the solution, then don't answer the question. I've encountered enough insulting people in my life, and I don't need another one. For if it wasn’t for the other people that wanted to help some of us along, I wouldn’t be 22 years in this business.


Return to posts index


Nick Griffin
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 3, 2009 at 2:38:38 pm

[Bob Zelin] "in my typical insulting way."

[John Grote, Jr.] "So, if you can't be part of the solution, then don't answer the question."

Now, now, boys. Calm down and go back to your corners. While Bob may be confrontational in nature he probably carries around more technical knowledge in his hard head than almost anyone else on the COW. The points he makes are correct, just stated like someone who has some other reason to be pissed off. A lot of us are under pressure these days from clients who want to pay in 120 days and vendors who still expect their money net 30. Maybe that's contributing to everyone's level of stress.

So, John, I don't think anything is to gain by dis-inviting a viable point of view and Bob, try a cup or two of the de-caf.

(Gee... and I'm not even one of the hosts in this pasture. I'm used to tyring to break up fist fights over in the Business & Marketing forum.)



Return to posts index

John Grote, Jr.
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 3, 2009 at 3:00:17 pm

Good day Nick,

So what where his points? Please explain them to me? I must be quite obtuse to understand what solution Bob was providing.

I've encountered a few, not many, engineers that may have the worlds knowledge in their heads, that have been insulting, but to be insulting does no good to any of us, especially the user/operator who has to deliver to these places. I'm not asked to fix the equipment, so I won't ask the engineer to edit. I know a few engineers that are highly intelligent and will take the time to explain things to me and other people in a way that is neither rude or demeaning. So, if he makes such great points, why doesn't he enlighten us with his great wisdom and not his arrogance.

Have respect for the people who know nothing, and also have respect for the people that may have a clue.



J. Grote, Jr.


Return to posts index

Nick Griffin
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 4, 2009 at 2:28:45 pm

John -

First, sorry in taking so long to reply. I was out most of yesterday producing a voice-over session in a language I don't speak. Big fun.

Second, and in answer to your query, I think Bob was over-reacting, thinking he was answering yet another of the newbie questions we frequently see on the COW. Not that there's anything wrong with asking questions and everyone has to start somewhere, but some of the posts are so ridiculously basic or obvious that some of the experts can be easily frustrated by the barrage. We've all seen them: "After I get the monitor plugged in how do I get Stephen Spielberg to know that I'm ready to edit his next movie?"

Personally I don't think that's the category into which your initial post falls. What I read was the start of a broad discussion on what to expect when attempting to work with standards in different parts of the world. Hopefully some light has been shed on this topic. Bob is blunt, but in his own way he got straight to the point.


Return to posts index


Joey Burnham
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 3, 2009 at 4:22:43 pm

People stop bickering. And John, don't take the forums so personally. It's just that this question gets asked ALL the time and nobody here can really answer it. You actually answered it yourself:


[John Grote, Jr.] "but if I don't ask the question to others, who will give me some sort of direction. The client?"

YES! As you already know there are zillions of formats out there these days. You already know the most common ones from the specs you have. Each client is different, THEY will tell you what they want. We can't unfortunately.

The most common right now?

Digibeta
Beta SP
HDCamSR
HDCam
D5
Digital Files

(Frame rate and Frame Size determined by client)

-Joey



Return to posts index

John Grote, Jr.
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 3, 2009 at 4:23:43 pm

Ah, but other people, including yourself, have responded in kind, without being arrogant. So, is it hard for someone to say, this is what I am doing with this particular (insert client here) and this is what they have been using.

I just don't appreciate someone responding to me or anyone here this way and I don't care what excuse is made by someone else about the economy, they had a bad day, or someone didn't give them a hug. I'm a big boy, but I do expect a level of courtesy.

My point now, is not so much my question, but Bob's response to my question. Should I or anyone else, stop posting, because Bob or for that matter anyone else thinks my question is stupid?

J. Grote, Jr.


Return to posts index

Joey Burnham
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 3, 2009 at 4:28:13 pm

Post away! The cow is just like the real world though. You can't expect everyone to be "nice".

Joey



Return to posts index


John Grote, Jr.
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 3, 2009 at 4:33:23 pm

And just like the real world, I expect a level of professionalism.

J. Grote, Jr.


Return to posts index

maurice jansen
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 3, 2009 at 9:45:49 pm

there is only ONE stupid question.
and that's the ONE not being asked.

although the client is king we can help each other out in this typical daily question.
there is only one who can tell what they want and that's the client.
and of coarse you need to cantact them first.
but they some time's have a complicated /weird way of doing this.

often the solution is one little checkbox in your software. or a menu setting in your VTR.
but you can search for this for ever.

in the Compression techniques forum

there is a topic which always stands on top named
How to get FASTEST compression help - PLEASE READ

maybe there should be a forum and a PleaseRead thread for
deliverySpec's

greet
Maurice


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 4, 2009 at 11:52:36 pm

John Grote, Jr. writes -
For if it wasn’t for the other people that wanted to help some of us along, I wouldn’t be 22 years in this business.

REPLY -
it comes to me in a flash ! John, didn't I work with you at MTI in New York about 20 years ago ? Weren't you one of the engineering tech's that worked with me ? You know what everyone at MTI was like. You know what everyone in the "biz" in NY is like. Are you not living in NY anymore ? Everyone was like me. We both went thru hell at MTI. Did you become nice over the years ?

Bob Zelin
ps - I help people on these forums night and day, every day, holidays, nights, and weekends. If I yell at them during the process, and that's not acceptable, all I can say is "pay me".




Return to posts index


Baz Leffler
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 5, 2009 at 12:54:15 am

Bob - if you changed and became a 'nice' guy they could name a country after you and call it, maybe... New Zelin?

Baz

What would I do without the 'UNDO' button!!!!


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: International Spec and Standards
on Jun 5, 2009 at 2:22:12 am

I am convinced that I know John Grote, Jr. I recall him telling me that you could pronounce his last name Grot, or Grotie. We worked with true New York ballbusters, including Carlo Delea, and Joe Mahedy. Every day was torture. You eventually get used to it - and toughen up. Of course, this was just one of countless places in NY that were torture. The post facilities were NOTHING compared to the film editorial houses, where it was an "honor" to work, and you were made aware of this every day you were there. Ball busting every day. Every company. And this, of course, was nothing compared to the humiliation of those that worked at advertising agencies in NY. This is why New Yorkers (and plenty of other hard to survive cities) produce some of the top people. The weak just get run over.

Now, John Grote was a very good engineering tech. But perhaps he has "had enough" after 22 years, and wants people to be "nice".
Well, you picked the wrong business John.

Bob Zelin




Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]