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panasonic AJ-HD 1400, 23.98 DX Avid Project

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Matthew Skeris
panasonic AJ-HD 1400, 23.98 DX Avid Project
on Jan 16, 2009 at 6:25:52 am

Hi Jan or anyone else that can assist,

I am having trouble understanding what's possible in terms of outputting (Avid digital cut) a 23.98 Avid HD Project's timeline onto a DVCPro tape on a AJ-HD 1400. I am connected to the Nitris DX Composer via both HD-SDI and Firewire.

I'm unaware of any limitations the 1400 might have. I am beginning to wonder if the 1400's System menu option, (which changes the red LED on the front to 23.98) is merely setting the deck for playback, rather than record as I also get a Record Inhibit when I change the System Menu off from 59.94. Is this the case? I need some basics... I am trying to back-up to DVCPro tape some 59.94 animation files after importing into an Avid 23.98 Project using the "ignoreqtrate true" console command. Basically, I just want to slow down the footage and archive it to tape. Is this possible using a 1400 or any vtr? thanks!


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Tim Ward
Re: panasonic AJ-HD 1400, 23.98 DX Avid Project
on Jan 16, 2009 at 11:01:02 pm

I don't have any experience with that, so that's my disclaimer! But, do you have a tri-level sync generator? If not, then you can't do 23.98...only 59.94. It's probably why you get the Record Inhibit when you switch away from 59.94.

Check out Bob Zelin's review of the AJA GEN10 tri-level sync generator. Pretty neat little box!

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/zelin_bob/aja_gen10.php

tim


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Matthew Skeris
Re: panasonic AJ-HD 1400, 23.98 DX Avid Project
on Jan 16, 2009 at 11:49:13 pm

Thanks so much, Tim. That's a great clue and I appreciate the Z-link.



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Dino Sanacory
Re: panasonic AJ-HD 1400, 23.98 DX Avid Project
on Jan 17, 2009 at 5:45:43 am

Okay. First question 1080 or 720?

The DVCProHD tape format has no provision for 24P. 1080 is always interlaced at 59.94i*. 720 is always progressive at 59.94P. 23.976P can exist in a computer or a file but there is no equivalent on tape.

I have no direct experience with the 1400 but have put in a good number of hours with the 1200, it's predecessor. Your suspicions are correct on the 23.98 on the deck. It is playback only for material recorded at 720 as 23.976 over 59.94 on a camcorder such as the Varicam. This mode outputs the signal over HD-SDI as 1080/23.976P. As there is no equivalent frame rate for 720 in the video spec, the deck has to uprez to 1080.

Now, from the Avid, my experience with an earlier version of the software (2.6) leads me to believe that you cannot output from 23.976 over firewire (as 5994P). Avid will only output from projects that match the native frame rate of DVCProHD tape. Therefore, you must output over SDI. I don't know if the functionality of this has been expanded on MC 3 (which I have to assume you are using as you mention the Nitris DX). Unfortunate for those of us still sticking with Avid, Final Cut has no problem with this.

If you are in a 720P project, the SDI out should be automatically converted to 59.94P by duplicating frames. If this is not the case, I'd really like to know so I can add that to the list of things I will yell at Avid about. I'm not kidding.

If you are in a 1080 project, you should be able to add pulldown to the output to make it 1080/59.94i. Unfortunately, I don't know that it works, I don't have access to a system with the new software. It worked on the DS Nitris but not on the Symphony Nitris. I am refering to the old Nitris and not the new Nitris DX. DS Nitris and Symphony Nitris, 2 products from the same manufacturer on the exact same hardware doing similar things and each would do things with that hardware that the other wouldn't, frustrating.

I only know that it should work if Avid expects us to take their products seriously (I'm trying to).

I guess the answer is really just no. you cant output this to DVCProHD tape. Your only real options are HDCam, HDCam SR and HD-D5.

* Is it better to say 59.94i or would you folks rather I use 29.97? I know that no matter which I use, I have to the qualify with the other. I'd really like to meet the person that came up with this additional befuddlement of a completely mature and understood concept and wring their neck.



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Matthew Skeris
Re: panasonic AJ-HD 1400, 23.98 DX Avid Project
on Jan 17, 2009 at 12:12:47 pm

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Dino. I have been working at 1080i in Avid Composer 3.0, but my frames are actually progressive as rendered from AE into DNxHD qt files. They are animations from stills. I want to edit from clean progressive frames, but with a slower look though not 15fps which I tried and didn't like inside the 5994 project.

Your suggestion to use HDCam is gold. I will try that next in an Avid 23.98 HD Project, using that Console command. Then I want to edit its 24fps on a real monitor, not just the Composer LCD screen... this may not be possible on my current program LCD monitor.

Avid: Yes, yelling gets results... enjoy the battle. I do love the DX gear, it seems great- but I can't really compare.

I don't know what I can do to answer your other question about 720, I'll have to gain a bit more experience before trying. I know I will refer to your post again when I am given my first Varicam tape for am edit. thank you for all the explanations.

I finally made peace with 5994 once i realized that it was the same fps as 2997- at least now when I see or hear 5994 I know we're probably talking HD.

be well.




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Bob Zelin
Re: panasonic AJ-HD 1400, 23.98 DX Avid Project
on Jan 18, 2009 at 10:12:48 pm

I think you got it already, but
1) don't read my articles
2) dont' by an AJA GEN 10 (unless you dont' own any black gen)
3) don't work in 23.98.

What the HELL are you doing working in 23.98 with an AJ-HD1400A. Everything is taken care of for you, and you are making your life difficult. Let the 1400 do it's job. It will do a 2:3 pulldown for you, and you will be at 59.94. End of story. Let this 720p 59.94 media go into your AVID, genlock to your nice boring NTSC black generator , and go back to work. DO NOTHING. Just edit. Stop this theoretical 23.98 nonsense. The VTR does all the work (so do most Sony HD VTR's).

Bob Zelin




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Matthew Skeris
Re: panasonic AJ-HD 1400, 23.98 DX Avid Project
on Jan 20, 2009 at 5:58:40 am

OK Bob, no reading or spending until I get back to work. I think they call that deflation, btw. :) fact is I don't know from HD vtrs, but wanted my DNxHD 220x renders to play out to tape slower than 30fps, but without pulldown because it is animation and I somehow got it in my head that it will be smoother at true 24 or 23.98. maybe I'll just forget it and get more drives. I should've just clicked the camera shutter faster to begin with, but that's life. Thanks for offering your help.



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Lawrence Blume
Re: panasonic AJ-HD 1400, 23.98 DX Avid Project
on Mar 23, 2010 at 9:41:12 pm

Bob -

I know you are an expert in these matters...so one quick question;

I am trying to digitize from the 1400 deck into my Avid MC 4.0 though firewire (I don't have an Adrenalin or Nitris interface) and wondering if this will work? We shot 720p 23.98 Varicam but if I have to work in the timeline at 59.94 it should be okay as our final product is a standard Def DVD. Can Avid handle this? Is the firewire interface fast enough?

Thanks.


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