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Problem with Horita BSG-50?

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Jason Jenkins
Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Sep 29, 2008 at 5:17:11 pm

I've just hooked up a Horita BSG-50 to my UVW-1800 and AJA Kona LHe system. Everything functions fine except I'm still getting a drift or offset in the output of the UVW. I'm not getting the horizontal split screen effect like before I hooked up the Horita, but still isn't lining up properly. I have blackburst going in to the 'ref in' on the UVW, as well as the 'video in'. The 75 ohm switches are on. I have another output from the Horita going in to the 'ref in' on the Kona LHe. Not sure what I'm missing here...

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Charlie King
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 1:40:56 am

I see that you said black burst going into the ref in along with video in to the beta. Is there a reason to feed it to both? Try disconnecting to video in see if that helps.
This setup should work fine.
If you need help e-mail me direct and since I am retired I have time I might be able to help, and can call you about it. or have yhou call me.

Charlie

ProductionKing Video Services
Las Vegas, Nevada
Charlie@proking.net


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 3:19:42 am

[Charlie King] "I see that you said black burst going into the ref in along with video in to the beta. Is there a reason to feed it to both?"

Hi Charlie,

The only reason I hooked it up that way is because in some of Bob's previous posts he mentioned that the UVW-1800 "likes" it that way. Thanks for your help. If I can't get this sorted, I'll shoot you an email.

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Bob Zelin
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 2:18:37 am

Charlie is incorrect. The UVW-1800 wants to see the same timed reference going to BOTH the video input and the Ref Video input. Do not disconnect anything, and make sure that the 75 ohm termination switches are ON on both the video in, and the Ref Video IN. This is not a PVW-2800, and this is not a BVW-75.

On your AJA card, go to the AJA Control Panel, which is in the Applications folder. Once open, click on the CONTROL tab, and make sure that EXT REF is selected, and not FREE RUN. This will lock your AJA LHe to the Beta VTR (provided you have black running to the REF IN of your Kona LHe card). IN the AJA Control panel window, you will see NTSC 525 shown if the AJA card is seeing the Horita BSG-50 black signal.

The UVW-1800 is a strange machine. Unlike other Sony VTR's, it wants to see a video signal that is in time (both H timing and V timing) on both the video input and the Ref Video input. The UVW-1800 was developed before the AVID Media Composer, and in the stone age of linear edit rooms, the only way to get a UVW-1800 to lock was to either H time the video input to the 1800 to match the black reference timing, or to simply LOOP the signal going to the video input to the Ref Video input. This is how we used to get VHS machines to lock up to the UVW-1800 that could not be genlocked. You would loop the Vid input and Ref Video input together, so that the horrible VHS signal would not only go into the video input, but would also act as a timing signal (with the same H timing) going into the REF Video input. This way, you would never get the dreaded
ERROR -093 NON STD REF. This existed before non linear editing.

Bob zelin




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Jason Jenkins
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 4:02:48 am

[Bob Zelin] "Do not disconnect anything, and make sure that the 75 ohm termination switches are ON on both the video in, and the Ref Video IN."

Check!

[Bob Zelin] "On your AJA card, go to the AJA Control Panel, which is in the Applications folder. Once open, click on the CONTROL tab, and make sure that EXT REF is selected, and not FREE RUN. This will lock your AJA LHe to the Beta VTR (provided you have black running to the REF IN of your Kona LHe card). IN the AJA Control panel window, you will see NTSC 525 shown if the AJA card is seeing the Horita BSG-50 black signal."

Check!

It seems to be set up correctly, but still no joy on the output. I just opened up the Horita to verify that all the outputs are set to blackburst. For kicks I reseated all the jumpers. Alas, the output is still not lining up. I dunno, do I need to adjust the subcarrier frequency?

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Bob Zelin
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 6:09:47 pm

how are you monitoring your audio - I hope you are listening to the output of your AJA LHe, and not the MAC audio output !

bob Zelin




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Jason Jenkins
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 7:13:27 pm

[Bob Zelin] "how are you monitoring your audio - I hope you are listening to the output of your AJA LHe, and not the MAC audio output !"

Yes, I have the LHe audio going to a mixer which outputs to my active studio monitors. What does that have to do with my UVW-1800 problem though?

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Bob Zelin
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 7:23:30 pm

nothing - the audio sync out of the MAC does not match the video from the LHe or monitor. I dont' know what your problem is (not without being there) - it seems like you are doing nothing wrong.
I don't know why you are slipping audio sync.

Bob Zelin




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Jason Jenkins
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 8:43:00 pm

[Bob Zelin] "I don't know why you are slipping audio sync."

I'm not slipping audio sync. The audio is perfect. It's the video image from the UVW-1800 that is not lining up horizontally on the monitor. It's like the whole image has shifted about 10% downward from where it should be. I'm sure there is a better technical term to describe it, but I don't know what it is.

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Bob Zelin
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 6:54:29 pm

I will wake up and read what you are writing about.

So you have everything locked up (with the Horita), and the picture is VERTICALLY shifting down - is this correct ? If you are in PLAYBACK while this is happening, then I don't know what is causing your problem (and you should speak to a VTR repair guy). But if you are seeing this only when you are previewing this thru the VTR, the TBC of ALL Sony VTR's vertically shifts the image down in E/E mode - this is normal. After you finish your recording, you should be able to play back the image with NO SHIFT in the image - vertically or horizontally). If this is not the case - just for sanity reasons - I would get any other source (like another VTR or a camera), and stick it into the UVW-1800 and make a dub or recording, and see if this "problem" happens as well.

Let me know -
Bob Zelin




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Jason Jenkins
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 7:52:15 pm

Thanks Bob,

That clears it up for me. There is no problem with playback, only the vertical shift when previewing through the VTR. I was hoping the UVW-1800 would do double duty as a component to S-video converter to feed my DVD recorder, etc... but it looks like that option is out.

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Bob Zelin
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 8:48:24 pm

There is no problem with playback, only the vertical shift when previewing through the VTR. I was hoping the UVW-1800 would do double duty as a component to S-video converter to feed my DVD recorder, etc... but it looks like that option is out

REPLY -
Hi Jason -
not only can you not use the UVW-1800 as a converter, you CANNOT use it as a Frame Synchronizer. Many people say that if you have to lock up an unstable tape (like a VHS or old 3/4"), you simply pass it thru the Beta 1800 and use it's TBC. This is nonsense, and an old wives tale. The only way to get a bad tape to "lockup" is to send it thru a FRAME SYNCHRONIZER (which can be anything like a Hotronics or Datavideo cheapie TBC/Frame Sync). True time base correctors (like used in Sony Beta VTR's) have no ability to replace the sync interval, and do nothing for "locking up" a bad tape.

Bob Zelin




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Jason Jenkins
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 11:58:07 pm

Thanks Bob! Good info –I had some of those same assumptions...

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Tim Ward
Re: Problem with Horita BSG-50?
on Mar 24, 2009 at 2:27:50 pm

I know I'm late to this party, but that sounds like something I used to have happen all the time on the 1800's I had in my control room. They would do it on playback especially, but only if I was using an A/B edit controller. All I had to do was flip the deck to Local then back to Remote, and it was fixed.

Tim



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