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Help with broadcast requirements

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lloyd stas
Help with broadcast requirements
on Jul 31, 2008 at 2:26:10 pm

Hi, basically i am new to making videos and everything. I have been doing a music video and have just been told the requirements in order to send it off to the TV companies. I was hoping for some help with understanding it and how to produce the video to fit in.

Here is the requirements:


High Definition material
Tape Format: HDCAM or HDCAM-SR
Video: 1920 x 1080 interlaced / 25fps / 50 Hz
Audio: Dolby® 5.1 as discrete tracks (preferred if
available)
Dolby® E (including 5.1 signal)
Stereo Mix (should always be present)

Standard Definition material
Tape Format: Digital Betacam
Video: 625/50, PAL, 16:9 Full Height Anamorphic
Audio: Stereo Mix





some of my questions..

1. i have done it in standard def, so should I just ignore the whole HD bit?

2. what is digital betacam format and how do i do this?

3. what is 625/50 referring to?

4. with 16:9 full height anamorphic.. how should this be done? i have followed tutorials on ho to convert 4:3 to 16:9 and it doesnt look much different to me in AE.. should it?? also should i avoid putting letterboxing into it? or is that ok?


sorry about being a noob with this but i really need help. thanks :)
Lloyd


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Keith Troester
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 1, 2008 at 12:41:40 am

Hey Lloyd,

1) If the requirement is SD, then follow the SD specs.

2) Digital Betacam (DigiBeta) is a popular standard definition digital tape format, with 4:2:2 sampling. You will need a PAL DigiBeta deck (usually with "P" in the model #--try Sony DVW-A500P).

3) 625/50 is referring to horizontal line resolution (which corresponds to PAL) and field frequency, respectively.

4) Not sure what you mean by your description here, but true anamorphic will look squeezed (kind of like a funhouse mirror), where as letterboxing will apply the black bars at the top and bottom to fit the correct aspect to a 4:3 monitor. Using Reformat and 16:9 Letterbox in Avid will create the letterboxing, but again, it depends on what exactly they need.

-Keith

My Weekly Comic for TV Techs: http://fpscomic.blogspot.com


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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 1, 2008 at 8:43:43 am

thanks keith! few more questions, sorry..

2)will i need to buy a digibeta deck in order to present in a digibeta format?

3) are these easily changeable in after effects?

4) what i mead about the widescreen is.. after i have converted it to 16:9 format, is it then alright to also add letterboxing to it?




Re: Bob Zelin, the video was shot on a canon XL1-s, miniDV. i edited it in Premiere pro and after effects. cs3





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Joey Burnham
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 1, 2008 at 7:34:44 pm

If you shot DV and you need to deliver digibeta, it's going to look like poop. And going by your specs your client seems to want the best they can get.
I don't know premiere, but I would suggest creating a new sequence with PAL 8 or 10 bit uncompressed and plop in your dv footage. You will need to render and see how it looks. Or you could do this in AE as well.
Unfortunately I don't think it will pass muster and you might need to reshoot on digi. Oh, and you could buy a deck if you want if you have a spare 60k around or so...
Joey





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Bob Zelin
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 1, 2008 at 10:16:39 pm

Lloyd,
you can't afford a Digi Beta deck (neither can I). I suggest that you bring your DV master to a professional post house, and let them do the transfer for you, so you can ATTEMPT to meet the delivery requirements. No matter how much this costs you, it will save you TONS of money from anything that you attempt to purchase your self, and all the time you will waste, trying to meet the required delivery requirements. All of this is complicated stuff that requires years of knowlege and background. If you must deliver now, I urge you to simply take your tape, or files from your computer on a drive to a professional post house. They can transfer your data on their system, and output what you need.

There is no simple answer for you on these forums.

Bob Zelin




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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 2, 2008 at 3:21:48 pm

ok! thanks loads for your help so far.. have researched some post houses nearby that i will contact.


just need a bit more help..

when i convert the video to 16:9, does it matter if I then put letterboxing on that?

With the 625/50 (horizontal line resolution and field frequency), is this easy to change in after effects/premiere? this wont be hard to do will it?



thanks so much so far :)
Lloyd



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Bob Zelin
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 2, 2008 at 4:41:54 pm

Lloyd,
I admire your ambition. You are a newbie, yet are working very hard to understand what is going on. You must be commended for this. No matter how I respond, with your determination, you may find alternate ways of doing things -
replies below -


when i convert the video to 16:9, does it matter if I then put letterboxing on that?

REPLY - letter boxing has typically happened when shooting in film or HD video which is native 16:9, and converted to 4:3 for broadcast. To keep the 16:9 aspect ratio, you wind up with letterboxing, which some people find objectionable. So if you shoot at 16:9, you don't ADD letterboxing to this - it's already "letterboxed". You don't continue to squish a 16:9 image in a 16:9 display. If you convert to standard def, for 4:3 distribution it will automatically become letterboxed if the 16:9 aspect ratio is kept, and if you want to get rid of the letterboxing for 4:3, you make it anamorphic (at least with an AJA card).



With the 625/50 (horizontal line resolution and field frequency), is this easy to change in after effects/premiere? this wont be hard to do will it?
REPLY - this is done by a STANDARDS converter, which is a piece of hardware (a box with connectors on it), that converts NTSC to PAL or PAL to NTSC. You hand your master tape to a facility that has a standards converter, and they make an NTSC or PAL master for you, with a standards converter, and a VTR that records in the standard that you want your master to be delivered in.

bob Zelin





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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 2, 2008 at 5:39:24 pm

wow! thanks Bob.. i've learnt so much in the past few weeks, my brain feels exhausted, haha. having fun doing it though!

Im just about done with questions i think :)..

with the standards converter, will this be done at the post house along with the Conversion to digibeta?

RE: the letterboxing. I shot it in 4:3 and am having to convert it to 16:9 anamorphic in order to send it to the broadcasting channels. I followed an online tutorial on how to convert it to 16:9 and it did not create a letterboxing effect. i wanted this effect so put it in myself. has something gone wrong if this is the case?

sorry if im not making much sense.

It probs won't make much difference but here is the video that im working on:







Your help means a lot to me. thankyou loads
Lloyd



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Bob Zelin
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 2, 2008 at 5:45:24 pm


with the standards converter, will this be done at the post house along with the Conversion to digibeta?

YES - let them do it for you.



RE: the letterboxing. I shot it in 4:3 and am having to convert it to 16:9 anamorphic in order to send it to the broadcasting channels. I followed an online tutorial on how to convert it to 16:9 and it did not create a letterboxing effect. i wanted this effect so put it in myself. has something gone wrong if this is the case?

REPLY - MOST STATIONS will only want standard def, not hi def. I never heard of ANYONE wanting a 16:9 standard def signal as a requirement - ever ! Once you do an upconversion to HD, it will be 16:9, and you have to do NOTHING.

Bob Zelin




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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 2, 2008 at 6:00:54 pm

sorry about my confusion again, here is what i have been sent:

Standard Definition material
Tape Format: Digital Betacam
Video: 625/50, PAL, 16:9 Full Height Anamorphic
Audio: Stereo Mix


So the digibeta conversion and 625/50 video will be converted by the post house. will the post house convert it to 16:9 Full Height Anamorphic aswell? (it was shot in 4:3). if not then how would i achieve this properly?



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Bob Zelin
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 2, 2008 at 6:04:51 pm

who is asking for a 16:9 standard def delivery ?

Bob Zelin




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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 2, 2008 at 7:02:00 pm

That was MTV.

Box television (another music TV station) also said this:

"In the near future we're converting our channels to widescreen. This means we will no longer accept videos in old style 4:3 standard, or 4:3 letterbox (those videos with black bars at the top and bottom). With immediate effect can you please supply videos in widescreen 16:9 Full Height Anamorphic."



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Bob Zelin
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 2, 2008 at 7:11:06 pm

I would like to see your delivery specifications. I never heard of this. Viacom has JUST started accepting HD delivery, but NTSC delivery and PAL delivery has been only 4:3.

Who told you this ? (about your delivery requirements)

I believe that your information is incorrect -

bob Zelin


This is the european MTV specificiation delivery requirements -
http://www.mtvnetworks.co.uk/files/production/Non-commercial%20Technical%20...

Technical Specification for Delivering
Non-Commercial Material (Adverts) to Transmission
MTV Networks programming is transmitted via an automated server system, cached from Digital Betacam. Whilst it is possible to use Beta SP, Transmission material is ideally supplied on Digital Betacam, dubbed where possible from the master.
For best audio and video performance please supply material that conforms to the following specifications:
Description Digital Betacam Beta SP
Alignment reference Sony ZRP Sony CR5 2BPS
Signal timing 625/50 (PAL)
Output levels and timing Aligned Sony DVW500P (or equivalent) should produce a CCIR 656 270Mbit/s signal which when converted to analogue produces PAL signal conforming to EBU specification. According to EBU specification for component recording of PAL signals
Aspect ratio 4:3 4:3
Audio reference level -18dB relative to max count (Headroom 18dB) +4dBu, PPM5




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Bill Stephan
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 4, 2008 at 10:44:57 pm

There is a substantial amount of content being broadcast in England in PAL 16:9 FHA format both on over-the-air networks and on cable. We see delivery specs such as what Lloyd has every day of the week.

Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City


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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 5, 2008 at 1:45:28 pm

ok thanks,

anyone know how to convert PAL 4:3 to PAL 16:9 FHA?

Lloyd



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Bill Stephan
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 5, 2008 at 4:30:57 pm

Lloyd,

The only way to convert 4:3 content into 16:9 content is to chop part of the frame, usually the top and bottom of the image. Whether this works depends on how the shots are composed during the shoot.

You make a frame of video anamorphic by squeezing the image along the x-axis to 75% of its original size. If you are starting with 4:3 content, that process gives you a "pillarbox" or an image with black bars on the left and right side. You have made an anamorphic image, but you have not changed 4:3 content into 16:9 content. You can blow-up the pillarboxed image until the black bars disappear. Now you have a 16:9 FHA (full height anamorphic) image, but the top and bottom of the original image have been cropped off. You can "pan/scan" each shot by moving it up or down in the frame if necessary to include important parts of each shot.

The downside of this process is you lose picture resolution because you are losing part of the original picture area by converting from 4:3 to 16:9. When you start with a true 16:9 image and make it anamorphic such as in an HDTV to NTSC downconversion, you make a full-frame to full-frame conversion that keeps the entire image.

Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City


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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 7, 2008 at 3:56:35 pm

thanks! at least now i know to shoot it in 16:9 next time.


is there anyway of telling if I have done it correctly?



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Bill Stephan
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 7, 2008 at 8:53:52 pm

Check it by looking at the footage on a 16:9 monitor or flat-screen TV.

Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City


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Bob Zelin
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Aug 1, 2008 at 3:10:24 am

hey Lloyd -
I have to ask - how did you shoot your music video ? What camera, what tape format did you use ? How did you edit your music video ?

Bob Zelin




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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Jan 15, 2009 at 1:00:54 am

woah, long time. just came across this so thought i would reply..

Used a Canon XL1s shooting on DV. edited in Premiere pro cs3 and then messed about with it in after effects. was the first time using the camera and any of the software so it was a steep learning curve.


currently trying to compress the latest video that we have made.



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Bob Zelin
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Jan 15, 2009 at 1:07:27 am

ok lloyd -
where are the music videos. Do you have them up on You Tube. I want to see them. Where the hell are they? Where is your work ?

bob Zelin




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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Jan 15, 2009 at 1:13:45 am

havnt really done that much with it yet.

the video in this thread is here:








other than that, we have done a couple of episodes, bashed these out pretty quickly so didnt spend to much time on getting the best look, also tried to get an oldschool childrens tv feel, dunno how well i did it though:

http://uk.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AF0506732059FC57


got this new video done now which i think looks alright. will post it up here when its online towards the end of the week.






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Bob Zelin
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Jan 15, 2009 at 1:49:17 am

it says "this video has been removed by the user".
What kind of CRAP REPLY is this. I want to see your work, and I want to see it RIGHT NOW. Where is it, or do I have to come over there ?

Bob Zelin




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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Jan 15, 2009 at 1:57:35 am

ugh, forgive me master zelin, its late!







alternatively, just go here.. http://www..youtube.com/swound

its on there somewhere, the 'life help..' vids were also shot with xl1s but again, purposefully made to look that way.



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lloyd stas
Re: Help with broadcast requirements
on Jan 20, 2009 at 12:47:44 am









this is the latest one we did.



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