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Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH

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Tim Vogel
Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Jul 18, 2008 at 5:24:04 pm

Hi all,

I have been reading about the NO REF! error on the 1800. I have video output 1 going to the REF Video 1 input. That solved the NO REF error message on the deck. However, in the video monitor that is sourced by S-Video out from the deck, the image is rolling.

I can capture and lay back to tape perfectly. The External monitor is what's screwy.

I do have a Black burst Gen ordered.

Any thoughts on the rolling monitor?

Thanks for the help!

--TV



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Bob Zelin
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Jul 20, 2008 at 9:32:54 pm

Hello Tim - this is a question for the AJA forum.
You have your system hooked up incorrectly, and it's a GOOD THING that you have a black generator on order, because you willl need it. There is no work around.

You are getting the following error message - ERROR 093 - NON STD REF
- am I correct ?

This is what you will do. when you receive your NTSC black generator (which I hope is an AJA GEN10, or Horita BSG-50, or the new Blackmagic black gen), you will stick one black output into the Ref Video input of the Beta 1800, one black output into the Video input of the Beta 1800, and one black output to the Reference IN of the AJA LH card. IN the AJA Control Panel, you will click on the "Control" tab, and select EXT REF, and your problems will be gone.

I am absolutely clear on the fact that you need black going into both your Ref Video AND video input on your Beta 1800, as this VTR does not like to see nothing on it's composite video input, even if you are using this VTR with analog component only (Y Pb Pr).

No reference to this VTR will cause the rolling issue that you are seeing right now.

Bob Zelin




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Tim Vogel
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Jul 20, 2008 at 9:42:03 pm

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the update.

I have the composite looped to the Ref. I have been able to capture from the deck and actually Print To Video from FCP to the deck. Playback shows the tape as rock solid. The monitor is the only thing screwy from what I can see.

--Tim



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Bob Zelin
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Jul 20, 2008 at 10:45:07 pm

your picture is "rolling" because you do not have a locked reference signal. Looping your video input to your reference input (which is what I do) means nothing without a reference feeding it. In desperate situations, where there is no black gen available, ANY composite video source (like a camera composite output) will work.

Bob Zelin




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Tim Vogel
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Jul 26, 2008 at 8:42:05 pm

And then there was editing bliss. Thanks Bob. I picked up a Sigma Blk Brst Gen. It's working great! Thanks again!



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Tim Vogel
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Aug 5, 2008 at 4:02:36 pm

Hi again Bob,

I have the BB Gen setup and in line with the 1800. I still show some very slow drift of the picture. Scrolling up a tick every second or so. Is there an adjustment in the deck or the generator that needs to be done to get the image solid on the monitor? The deck plays back perfectly. It's only when I am monitoring from the FCP that it rolls.

Thanks for your help.

--Tim



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Bob Zelin
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Aug 5, 2008 at 8:23:41 pm

Tim -
no more brief descriptions. I ASSUME THAT you are using the Kona LHe and UVW1800 in Beta Component (the Y R-Y B-Y cables, and not S Video or Composite Video).

Hook up Black from your Sigma Black Gen to the Ref Video input of the UVW1800
Hookup Black from the Sigma Black Gen to the Composite Video input of the UVW 1800 (don't ask, just do it).
Hookup Black from the Sigma Black Gen to the REFERENCE IN of the Kona LHe.

Go into the Kona LHe AJA Control Panel, click on the CONTROL TAB, and select EXTERNAL REFERENCE (you should see an indication on the left showing that 525 NTSC Black is going into the Kona LHe on the Control Panel window display).

Once you do this, you will no longer have any issues.

Bob Zelin




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Tim Vogel
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Aug 5, 2008 at 8:36:12 pm

Hi Bob,

I have the LH, not the LHe.

The Sigma Gen I have is the CSG-355A. It only has one B.BURST out.

It also has COLOR SYNC BLNK SC B.FLG V.DR H.DR on the back of the unit.

I'm connected to the Sony 13" via component.

--Tim



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Bob Zelin
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Aug 5, 2008 at 8:46:40 pm

I have the LH, not the LHe.

The Sigma Gen I have is the CSG-355A. It only has one B.BURST out.

It also has COLOR SYNC BLNK SC B.FLG V.DR H.DR on the back of the unit.

I'm connected to the Sony 13" via component.


REPLY -
I don't know what on earth you are doing with a 25 year old black generator. For the last 20 years, Sigma has made Black generators with a minimum of 3 outputs (BSG-2140), and now the modern Sigma BSG-26N with 6 outputs. A Horita BSG-50 has 6 black outputs, and is on EBay RIGHT NOW (but is now) for $175. You can get a modern AJA GEN10 for about $360, or a Blackmagic Black Gen for $295.

If you are not willing to purchase the right equipment to work, then you are wasting everyone's time. There is no work around for this. Where you dug up a CSG-355A is beyond me, but it is OLD, it has unstable analog circuitry, and you should throw it in the garbage.

The other outputs on the CSG-355A were for old analog video switchers, and are useless to you in a modern video facility. Your AJA Kona LH has a REFERENCE INPUT.

BUY THE CORRECT BLACK GENERATOR OR I WILL KILL YOU.

In the mean time do this (and who knows if your black gen actually works). Take your single black output, and stick it into the REFERENCE INPUT of your Kona LH. Open the AJA Control Panel and click the control tab, and put it on EXTERNAL REFERENCE. Does the control panel acknowlege that it has an external reference ? If it does (and you don't have a dead useless box) - do this -

plug the single black signal into the UVW1800 REF VIDEO INPUT. Turn off the terminator switch. Loop a short BNC between the REF IN AND VIDEO IN of the UVW1800. Turn off the input's termination switch as well. You now have ONE BNC LEFT on the back of the UVW1800. Plug in the Kona LH REFERENCE IN cable right here (on the back of the UVW1800). Now everything has black from your one single output, and this should get you working.

STOP BUYING OLD EQUIPMENT. I am really sick of this. 13 year old musicians somehow manage to buy guitars and drums. 13 year old kids have CEL PHONES and iPods (and I see this in poor neighborhoods). SO DONT TELL ME that you can't get the money together as a professional to purchase a Black Generator from ebay.

Bob Zelin




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Adam Stencil
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Sep 9, 2008 at 5:18:19 pm

Bob -

I'm getting the same problem, but the bigger issue is, I'm not getting any picture into my UVW-1800 out from FCP. I'm working with a KONA 3 card, Gen10 Sync Generator and a K3 breakout box. I've tried putting the sync into all the suggested inputs. I've got the component cables from the break out box (Vid Mon Out) running to the 1800 inputs. My audio is fine and coming through. The 'NO REF!' error must be due to the picture, because it's still laying down the TC from FCP. Any thoughts?


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Bob Zelin
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Sep 9, 2008 at 5:33:01 pm

I'm getting the same problem, but the bigger issue is, I'm not getting any picture into my UVW-1800 out from FCP. I'm working with a KONA 3 card, Gen10 Sync Generator and a K3 breakout box. I've tried putting the sync into all the suggested inputs. I've got the component cables from the break out box (Vid Mon Out) running to the 1800 inputs. My audio is fine and coming through. The 'NO REF!' error must be due to the picture, because it's still laying down the TC from FCP.

REPLY -
close FCP
open AJA Kona Control Panel.
Select FORMAT TAB
select 525 for both primary and secondary
select Control Tab
select TEST PATTERNS - COLOR BARS
select ANALOG OUT TAB
select COMPONENT BETA as the choice in the anlaog out tab.

Stick the Out Y Pb Pr from the K3 box into your Beta 1800. Make sure that the little switch on the back of the 1800 is in the UP position on the component input jacks (it's a little black switch). Make sure your input selector on the Beta is on Y Pb Pr.

Take one BNC cable from your Beta VTR output, and plug it into the TV. Eject the tape from your Beta, put the VTR into LOCAL, and hit the red record button ?

Do you see color bars ? If you don't, then you have trouble. At this point, if you don't see bars, take the Y cable out of the Kona 3, and stick it directly into your TV monitor. You should see a B+W
color bar signal. Do you ?

Let me know.

bob Zelin




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Adam Stencil
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Sep 9, 2008 at 8:17:14 pm

Following those steps, I got black going out to the Beta. I did however, get b&w bars going straight into the TV, so at least the signal is going out. I tried laying off to tape anyway and still got nothing but black.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Sep 9, 2008 at 8:27:26 pm

Adam -
you have just proved that you have an issue with your Beta VTR. If you got "B+W" bars from feeding the Kona directly into the TV, this proves that the Kona is working.

To go one step further (this will prove if your Beta VTR has an issue) - go back to the ANALOG OUT tab in the Control Panel, and change it from Component to COMPOSITE. Now, that "Y Out" jack will be a composite video output. If you put this into your TV, you will see color on the color bars.

Take this Y out from the Kona K3 box, and put it into the VIDEO INPUT of your Beta VTR. Switch the input selector on your UVW1800 to COMPOSITE VIDEO IN, instead of Y Pb Pr. Take a BNC cable and go from the output of the Beta VTR (like video out 1) right into the TV monitor. Make sure that there is no tape in the Beta VTR, you are in local,and hit the RED record button on the Beta VTR. do you see a picture on your TV ? If you don't, your Beta machine has a problem.

Remember, if you take this cable that is going into the Beta VTR video in (the one that is coming from the "Y" out of the K3 box), and stick it into your TV monitor, you should see a FULL COLOR color bar signal right now (as long as your Control Panel analog out setting is set for COMPOSITE, and not component). This will prove once again that your Kona is working.

Bob Zelin




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Adam Stencil
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Sep 9, 2008 at 9:00:27 pm

That definitely got it closer! I was able to see the color bars on the monitor, in addition to the BETA deck itself. The NO REF! error is also no longer on the deck. I tried laying off to the tape and still got black, but it definitely appears that the deck is okay since it received the color bars. Any other thoughts?



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Bob Zelin
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Sep 9, 2008 at 9:30:04 pm

put color bars (composite) back into the Beta VTR Video input, and put the input selector to Composite Video. Pop in a tape and hit RECORD AND PLAY. Then play back the tape on a tv monitor. If you get black, your VTR head is dead.

Bob Zelin




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Jason Jenkins
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Sep 12, 2008 at 4:24:26 am

[Bob Zelin] "A Horita BSG-50 has 6 black outputs, and is on EBay RIGHT NOW (but is now) for $175."

Thanks for the tip, Bob. I just bought it!



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chris ndlovu
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Nov 29, 2016 at 8:55:26 am

Hi Bob,

My name is Chris, I am working on FCP 7 and have been having problems with my Sony VTR machine. At first I had a 9300 message displayed on it, then it was NR OFF and now I have an error message displaying No REF! I am trying to print to video but I can't seem to connect to the VTR even though the print to video window displays VTR OK.

Can you please help me,

Thanks,

Chris


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Bob Zelin
Re: Betacam UVW1800 and Kona LH
on Nov 29, 2016 at 7:22:54 pm

this post is from 2008 ! Who records back to a Beta VTR in 2016 ?

Your AJA Kona Card and Beta UVW 1800 must have a black reference signal from a product like an AJA GEN10
connected to the EXT REF input of the Kona (and select EXT REF in the Kona Control Panel) - and put the same black signal into both the REF IN, and Composite Video IN of the Beta 1800. I assume you are using the Y Pb Pr output of the Kona card to go into the input of the Beta 1800 VTR.

Once you do this, you will no longer receive an error message on the VTR.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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