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best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.

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Craig Alan
best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 27, 2013 at 4:42:28 pm

I teach video at a school and need to deal with a large number of projects/codec's and levels of ability.

We use Panasonic AG-HPX250/Panasonic AG-HPX170 cams among many other cams.

I used Panasonic's P2 Contents Management Software for MAC users, however, the video plays back with sound but no picture. I read on-line that FCP X being installed creates this disability.

Seems weird. I'll ask panasonic about it.

That said, it does import into FCP X.

Is there a better work flow for this?

A bigger problem is getting the footage into Imovie.

I have sent the clips to compressor and transcoded it to AIC. But it looks degraded in Imovie viewer.
Much worse than other imported files which I understand Imovie converts to AIC.

I need Imovie for beginners and non-film students and other teachers.

I had no problems with Panasonic's P2 Contents Management Software for MAC users and FCP 7 last year.

Now I'm making this somewhat painful transition.

Our final product will also be a variety - from on-line, to SD-DVD (I follow Ken Stone tutorial on compressor for that), Blu-Ray, to using a hard drive to play the files directly out a Mac to a HD projector.

I know this is low end stuff for a pro compression forum but I would appreciate any help.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeff Greenberg
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 28, 2013 at 2:31:55 pm

Hi Craig!



[Craig Alan] "
I used Panasonic's P2 Contents Management Software for MAC users, however, the video plays back with sound but no picture. I read on-line that FCP X being installed creates this disability.

Seems weird. I'll ask panasonic about it.

That said, it does import into FCP X.

Is there a better work flow for this?"


P2 comes in great to FCPX - as p2 video or transcoded (optimized) as ProRes



[Craig Alan] " A bigger problem is getting the footage into Imovie."

Yeah, AIC looks like hell. I thought you might be able to give it HDV footage, but I just tested it and no dice. It was developed to work on G5s and G4s.

Shocking idea: maybe you move them to FCPX?

[Craig Alan] "- from on-line, to SD-DVD (I follow Ken Stone tutorial on compressor for that), Blu-Ray, to using a hard drive to play the files directly out a Mac to a HD projector."

Not only is most of this directly in FCPX, but you could easily build templates via the new Destinations tab (in the preferences)

Best,

Jeff I. Greenberg
Author/Master Instructor/Speaker/Consulting
My contact info and more
New! Come see me speak @ NAB/Post Production World!


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Craig Alan
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 28, 2013 at 3:55:11 pm

Next year I'll have a enough FCP X students so those students can help the newbies. You just can't learn the basics of FCP X in 5 minutes. Plus the FCP X stations are not even installed yet. I have FCP 7 and Imovie on a few stations only.

Other clips are coming into Imovie in decent shape despite the AIC auto-transcode. Not so, so far, with the P2 stuff.

But are you suggesting that FCP X transcodes media with the same quality as compressor? That would be a time saver. I'm just thinking that if i could give Imovie the P2 files in AIC from a pro compression program it would be a better transcode than what Imovie does for itself.

Are any of the compression (send to) options in FCP X AIC?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeff Greenberg
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 28, 2013 at 8:38:02 pm

[Craig Alan] " You just can't learn the basics of FCP X in 5 minutes. Plus the FCP X stations are not even installed yet. I have FCP 7 and Imovie on a few stations only."

I think the 'basics' are easier in FCPX than iMovie (Get clips in, assemble them, move them around.) I just think FCPX is more constant and goes deeper. It is more confusing if you're super comfortable with FCP7 though.

The licenses are a different issue. :D


[Craig Alan] " Other clips are coming into Imovie in decent shape despite the AIC auto-transcode. Not so, so far, with the P2 stuff.

But are you suggesting that FCP X transcodes media with the same quality as compressor? That would be a time saver. I'm just thinking that if i could give Imovie the P2 files in AIC from a pro compression program it would be a better transcode than what Imovie does for itself."


FCPX uses compressor as it's engine to generate ProRes files (optimized or proxy.) I don't care for AIC at any flavor and the p2>AIC isn't great...because AIC was optimized for HDV and older machines.

Sadly, you can't pick the flavor of transcode from FCPX

[Craig Alan] " Are any of the compression (send to) options in FCP X AIC?"

You *might* be able to configure your own preset for "Share" in FCPX and yes, you could make that AIC - but why not just have compressor do the lifting? Why go to FCPX at all?

Best,

Jeff I. Greenberg
Author/Master Instructor/Speaker/Consulting
My contact info and more
New! Come see me speak @ NAB/Post Production World!


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Craig Alan
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 28, 2013 at 11:00:08 pm

[Jeff Greenberg] "The licenses are a different issue. :D

"


We got the licenses, raids, computers. Just need IT and electrical to set things up.

[Jeff Greenberg] "FCPX uses compressor as it's engine to generate ProRes files (optimized or proxy.) I don't care for AIC at any flavor and the p2>AIC isn't great...because AIC was optimized for HDV and older machines.
"


That makes sense. HDV and apple pro res look good ingested into Imovie. The P2 stuff seems more degraded.


[Jeff Greenberg] "It is more confusing if you're super comfortable with FCP7 though.
"


Guilty as charged.


[Jeff Greenberg] "why not just have compressor do the lifting? Why go to FCPX at all?
"


Having trouble getting the P2 files opened directly in compressor. I got P2 CMS working. It creates a folder with the files. Can't figure how to get it into Compressor. Imports into FCP X. no problem.
I've tried "open" in Compressor. No go. Tried dragging into batch window. No.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeff Greenberg
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 29, 2013 at 1:50:09 am

[Craig Alan] " Having trouble getting the P2 files opened directly in compressor. I got P2 CMS working. It creates a folder with the files. Can't figure how to get it into Compressor. Imports into FCP X. no problem.
I've tried "open" in Compressor. No go. Tried dragging into batch window. No."


Yeah, p2 doesn't open in Compressor. Sure does open in Adobe Prelude though. Or FCPX.

Best,

Jeff I. Greenberg
Author/Master Instructor/Speaker/Consulting
My contact info and more
New! Come see me speak @ NAB/Post Production World!


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Craig Alan
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 29, 2013 at 2:43:34 am

So my only option is to open in fcp x and then send to compressor? I thought you recommended going straight to compressor.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeff Greenberg
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 29, 2013 at 3:46:32 pm

From P2, we have no choice. iMovie can't read it. Neither can Compressor.
FCP can - I'd suggest doing a straight copy and then sending from FCPX to Compressor (or/and building a destination under the Preferences.)

This way you could copy/link to the P2 material. Select all, and Share to the AIC setting.

But AIC is AIC and will still look so-so.

Best,

Jeff I. Greenberg
Author/Master Instructor/Speaker/Consulting
My contact info and more
New! Come see me speak @ NAB/Post Production World!


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Craig Alan
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 29, 2013 at 5:28:06 pm

Thanks so much Jeff, big help,

By next year I'll skip Imovie unless Apple updates it to include modern codec's.

I suspect they will since it would tier it to FCP X.

But regardless I'll have enough students who know FCP X to have them help the newbies.

Seems FCP X can import the P2 stuff right off the card reader no need to save using panasonic's reader first.

I can ingest into FCP X not optimized and send to compressor and set the aspect and frame size to the match the original. Any other setting in compressor that you think are needed (inspector window)?

As you say the image is degraded. AIC does better with HDV source material. P2 looks great in FCP X though.

Would 30PN be 29.97 or 30 FPS?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeff Greenberg
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 29, 2013 at 5:49:28 pm

[Craig Alan] "By next year I'll skip Imovie unless Apple updates it to include modern codec's."

Will never happen. :D Also won't ingest native from a P2 card anyway.

[Craig Alan] " Seems FCP X can import the P2 stuff right off the card reader no need to save using panasonic's reader first."

Yup!

[Craig Alan] " I can ingest into FCP X not optimized and send to compressor and set the aspect and frame size to the match the original. Any other setting in compressor that you think are needed (inspector window)?"

Yup - actually all you need to do is ingest and 'copy' (just to get it off the cards.) That'll rewrap it as p2 QuickTime files.

If you open compressor you should be able to make (and save) a straight AIC file. Set it as a destination. Then Ingest off the card; select all, share to the AIC setting.

[Craig Alan] " As you say the image is degraded. AIC does better with HDV source material. P2 looks great in FCP X though."

AIC was designed for HDV to be more palatable on lower end systems. I doubt it was ever tested with p2 - after all, iMovie can't actually see/handle it. You'd have to import it after something else ingested it.


[Craig Alan] " Would 30PN be 29.97 or 30 FPS?"

Can I talk you into shooting 24 instead? Sigh. I'm not 100% sure. FCPX does have a 1080 29.97P resolution - I suggest you ingest via FCPX, drop it into a sequence and see what it says.

Best,

Jeff I. Greenberg
Author/Master Instructor/Speaker/Consulting
My contact info and more
New! Come see me speak @ NAB/Post Production World!


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Craig Alan
Re: best practice for P2 media conversions to flavors of apple pro res and/or AIC.
on Mar 29, 2013 at 6:50:19 pm

[Jeff Greenberg] "Will never happen. :D Also won't ingest native from a P2 card anyway.
"


Well if Imovie becomes FCP X lite, why not? I mean FCP X is advertised as being able to import Imovie projects - a great feature that all the pros are just thrilled about ...


[Jeff Greenberg] "If you open compressor you should be able to make (and save) a straight AIC file. Set it as a destination. Then Ingest off the card; select all, share to the AIC setting.
"

Did that in the 'other" folder in compressor. Very easy. sends it to my AIC for Imovie folder on my media browser.

[Jeff Greenberg] "Can I talk you into shooting 24 instead? Sigh. I'm not 100% sure. FCPX does have a 1080 29.97P resolution - I suggest you ingest via FCPX, drop it into a sequence and see what it says.
"


Got it. as for 24P: Yeah we'll play with that but students have a tendency to pan too quickly as is. But we'll get there. Once we are editing in a pro app they learn why good production practices are what they are.

Interesting though: 24 FPS was created out of technical needs not artistic. And some are moving toward higher frame rates not lower. Due to digital projection and film cams being EOL who knows what will become of our sense of artistic visuals. I took out an old slide projector the other day and projected an old 35 mm slide onto a wall. Not a high end film cam, not professionally lit. the wall was not a screen. just the same, it was far more beautiful than anything on my computer screen. Oh well. This too shall pass.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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