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Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary

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Vincent Strader
Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 8:42:40 pm

This project was already too huge, HDV close to 2 hours.

So I exported it to NTSC DV 48 in 2 parts. I'm gonna have to go with 2 DVD with this one, there's just too much.

Looking at all the options in Compressor, some of the video options are coupled with audio. So if I only select Mpeg 2 Prgram stream will that also include audio in the compression? Or will I still need to select acc audio?

Will one look better than the other? Or does one just not have audio, meaning I'd still drag AAC 128Kbps for the audio setting? I'd like to use AIFF 48khz, but I think that would make the file too big for this situation dealing with DVDSP or IDVD.


Name: Program Stream
Description: MPEG-2 Program Stream with MPEG audio at 48kHz. Settings based off the source resolution and frame-rate.
File Extension: mpeg
Estimated size: 6.92 GB/hour of source
Type: MPEG-2 program stream
Video Encoder
Format: M2V
Width and Height: Automatic
Pixel aspect ratio: Default
Crop: None
Padding: None
Frame rate: (100% of source)
Frame Controls: Automatically selected: Off
Start timecode from source
Aspect ratio: Automatic
Selected 16:9
Field dominance: Automatic
Average bit rate: 15 (Mbps)
2 Pass VBR enabled
Maximum bit rate: 20 (Mbps)
High quality
Best motion estimation
Closed GOP Size: 1/2 second, Structure: IBBP
Audio Encoder
Format: MPEG
Sample Rate: 48.000kHz
Channels: 2
Bits Per Sample: 16



Then theirs the elementary one with no audio coupled with the compression.

Name: Elementary Stream (no audio coupled with the selection)
Description: MPEG-2 Elementary Stream, 15 Mbps. Settings based off the source resolution and frame-rate.
File Extension: m2v
Estimated size: 6.75 GB/hour of source
Type: MPEG-2 video elementary stream
Usage:generic
Video Encoder
Format: M2V
Width and Height: Automatic
Pixel aspect ratio: Default
Crop: None
Padding: None
Frame rate: (100% of source)
Frame Controls: Automatically selected: Off
Start timecode from source
Aspect ratio: Automatic
Selected 16:9
Field dominance: Automatic
Average bit rate: 15 (Mbps)
2 Pass VBR enabled
Maximum bit rate: 20 (Mbps)
High quality
Best motion estimation
Closed GOP Size: 1/2 second, Structure: IBBP

Vinnie
---
24, LOST, Prison Break, FRINGE, Supernatural, DEXTER, Breaking Bad, CHUCK, Flash Forward, HEROES...even SMALLVILLE in the latter seasons.. they've all ruined my movie going experience by being better than so many movies out today.


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Vincent Strader
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 8:55:30 pm

Just to save time I'm gonna go ahead and do it that way, and if somebody else has a better way I'd certainly appreciate any corrections, suggestions, ideas, etc.

Vinnie
---
24, LOST, Prison Break, FRINGE, Supernatural, DEXTER, Breaking Bad, CHUCK, Flash Forward, HEROES...even SMALLVILLE in the latter seasons.. they've all ruined my movie going experience by being better than so many movies out today.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 9:03:35 pm

It's unclear what your goal is.
Can you please read the sticky at the top of this forum about getting the fastest help and post all the info?
Other than putting something on DVD you don't explain why you're doing this.

If you're trying to create a file to be used in DVDStudio Pro start with one of the Compressor presets for that. DVD Best Quality 120 minutes for example. You can duplicate the preset and lower the data rate if you need it to be on one DVD video disc and the file size is too large after encoding. Compressor shows you an estimated size per hour in the Summary tab.

iDVD does its own encoding.



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Vincent Strader
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 10:19:57 pm

Sorry Craig

Model Name: Mac Pro / OSX 10.5.8
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3.2 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
Memory: 8 GB
Bus Speed: 1.6 GHz
FCP7.0.3

Video file:
compressor: XDCAM EX 1080i60
Frame Size: 1920 x 1080

Size of tape in the project:
Frame - 1280 x 720
Compressor - Apple Intermediate Codec


Desired destination codec and Use - SD DVD, and we drag the VOB files off the DVDs to our Princeton server which converts the files to m2v files.

We still go out SD, but Time Warner converts the signal to digital along their lines.

Normally I do everything in one setting. 720, and projects don't get this long in time. But I had a lot of different firemen handing me tapes for a project this year that I haven't had to deal with until this year. Got right up to 1 hour and 45 minutes. Two forms of HDV , and a big headache :)

IDVD tells me the project is too large. So does DVDSP.


So I did the above.. i converted the HDV footage into one file NTSC DV 48 KHz Anamorphic. It played back fine in the QT player.

But that one file was still too larger for either program.


So I encoded the same way, but into 2 parts. It's going to have to be a 2 part DVD.

Taking those 2 sections (1 at a time) into Compressor. Both compressed quickly.

The Audio assett imported into DVDSP .. the m2v file will not be accepted by DVDSP


BOUT TO POUND MY HEAD INTO THE DESK.. As I'm typing this, I just finished another encode out of compressor. Now DVDSP accepts it.

Like that STAPLES commercial, I just wish there was 1 easy click button for Apple programs.


*EDIT*

But the video is only 1.5 gig... hoping it's not going to look horrible once the first part of the DVD is completed.

Vinnie
---
24, LOST, Prison Break, FRINGE, Supernatural, DEXTER, Breaking Bad, CHUCK, Flash Forward, HEROES...even SMALLVILLE in the latter seasons.. they've all ruined my movie going experience by being better than so many movies out today.


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Vincent Strader
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 10:38:59 pm

Back to my main question.

Some of the presets for the video already have the audio inside them.

If you look at DVD Fastest For Encode 90 minutes (Name: MPEG-2 6.2Mbps 1-pass)

You see that it also has audio properties inside it.

So is there a reason to drag another audio preset to the job window? Or just drag that one preset?

Would dragging both presets be over kill?

Vinnie
---
24, LOST, Prison Break, FRINGE, Supernatural, DEXTER, Breaking Bad, CHUCK, Flash Forward, HEROES...even SMALLVILLE in the latter seasons.. they've all ruined my movie going experience by being better than so many movies out today.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 10:40:15 pm

You really seem lost about the process.
Program and Transport steams are usually for Broadcast delivery. They are not files used in DVD authoring.



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Vincent Strader
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 10:50:21 pm

[Craig Seeman] "You really seem lost about the process.
Program and Transport steams are usually for Broadcast delivery. They are not files used in DVD authoring.
"


Trying to do both. We broadcast on a channel for the Fire Department. And we also hand out DVDs.

I got the first DVD playing, but the motion is sort of blury compared to the original source file.

Vinnie
---
24, LOST, Prison Break, FRINGE, Supernatural, DEXTER, Breaking Bad, CHUCK, Flash Forward, HEROES...even SMALLVILLE in the latter seasons.. they've all ruined my movie going experience by being better than so many movies out today.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 10:39:00 pm

I still don't get what you're doing and why.
Either I'm not understanding you or your workflow is a mess.



[Vincent Strader] "Video file:
compressor: XDCAM EX 1080i60
Frame Size: 1920 x 1080

Size of tape in the project:
Frame - 1280 x 720
Compressor - Apple Intermediate Codec"


I don't understand this. Is this an FCP sequence setting?
Why use AIC at all, ever?

Please use the preset I mentioned in Compressor. If the file is too large you can duplicate and lower the nitrate.

[Vincent Strader] "Desired destination codec and Use - SD DVD, and we drag the VOB files off the DVDs to our Princeton server which converts the files to m2v files."

Why are you doing this? Just encode your master to .m2v using the aforementioned preset.



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Vincent Strader
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 10:42:07 pm

I was handed a group of tapes and 2 SD cards with the 1920 x 1080. None of it was organized, different firemen brought me different tapes and I'm supposed to create one program out of it all. Which I have. Now i'm just facing issues with the size of the files once I export them out of FCP.

I was just exporting a QT movie, but the file was too large.

So I exported the files into 2 parts using the QT Conversion. NTSC 48 KHZ Anamorphic. And the files (2 parts now) were still huge. So I took each one of those files into Compressor.

That's where I saw all the presets. Some of the video presets have audio properties inside them like the above cited ones. If they have the audio properties inside them, do I still need to drag in an audio preset?

Vinnie
---
24, LOST, Prison Break, FRINGE, Supernatural, DEXTER, Breaking Bad, CHUCK, Flash Forward, HEROES...even SMALLVILLE in the latter seasons.. they've all ruined my movie going experience by being better than so many movies out today.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 5, 2011 at 10:54:07 pm

[Vincent Strader] "I was handed a group of tapes and 2 SD cards with the 1920 x 1080. None of it was organized, different firemen brought me different tapes and I'm supposed to create one program out of it all."

If you're only need is standard def, you'd create a custom preset using a standard def frame size with Apple ProRes as the codec. HD video works just fine in SD timeline. You have the option to resize or reposition depending on the content of the shot you want to use.

[Vincent Strader] "I was just exporting a QT movie, but the file was too large."

Quicktime .mov is a wrapper not a codec. The data rate of the file has no impact on the size of the encode using the Compressor preset I mentioned.

If you export in the timeline codec even using your chosen AIC, that would work just fine. Compressor doesn't care. Neither should iDVD. The latter has a 2 hour limit. The former allows you to lower the bit rate if you want it all on one DVD.

Using Quicktime conversion is just going to mash the quality even further. In most cases it's a must to avoid unless you're doing your distribution file export and don't need the extra tweaks in Compressor.

Please follow my advice and use the Compressor DVD Best 120 preset. If that file is too large just duplicate the preset and lower the data rate.

You're making something that very easy, into something that convoluted.

Start at the beginning. Export from FCP using Export Quicktime Movie and don't' touch any settings.
Use the DVD preset I mentioned above.



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Vincent Strader
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 6, 2011 at 2:27:56 am

Thanks for your patience Mr. S.

Yes, I admit I'll turn middle school algebra into college statistics.

I also realized that dragging one of those presets will automatically create the video and audio file for the DVD. I was dragging one preset for video, and an additional preset for audio into the compressor sets. Left it when I just did the one preset you cited, walked away to do some other business, came back and there were the 2 files waiting. A Municipal Government setting doesn't allow a lot of time for really sitting down with these programs, and I can't take it home to learn it. In the past it's always just been, "Throw it in IDVD..." Thanks again for your assistance and patience.

Vinnie
---
24, LOST, Prison Break, FRINGE, Supernatural, DEXTER, Breaking Bad, CHUCK, Flash Forward, HEROES...even SMALLVILLE in the latter seasons.. they've all ruined my movie going experience by being better than so many movies out today.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 6, 2011 at 2:40:18 am

There's lots of good tutorials for Apple Compressor version 3. You could watch those at home. Granted that takes time and they may not pay you for that time.



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Jeff Greenberg
Re: Mpeg2 Program vs Elementary
on Jul 12, 2011 at 6:31:30 pm

[Vincent Strader] "I was just exporting a QT movie, but the file was too large.

So I exported the files into 2 parts using the QT Conversion. NTSC 48 KHZ Anamorphic. And the files (2 parts now) were still huge. So I took each one of those files into Compressor.

That's where I saw all the presets. Some of the video presets have audio properties inside them like the above cited ones. If they have the audio properties inside them, do I still need to drag in an audio preset?
"


Just trying to help here.
Program streams have the audio embedded. Elementary streams do not.

DVDs = M2V + separate audio (usually ac3) (elementary streams)

It sounds like you want to make both? Fine.

Don't use the DV NTSC - you've just crushed the video (which will compromised color space and make it look very soft.)

Either use the send to compressor function in FCP or export QuickTime Movie (not conversion.) Yes, it will be a larger file. Keep it. put it on the shelf and label it a 'digital master'

Use the Compressor DVD settings for your DVD.
Duplicate the MPEG2 entry and change it to a program stream and you'll have your 2nd file that is identical to your other video, except it'll have embedded audio.

Best,

Jeff G

Apple Master Trainer | Avid Cert. Instructor DS/MC | Adobe Cert. Instructor
------------
You should follow me (filmgeek) on twitter. I promise to be nice.
New- my book (with Richard Harrington and Robbie Carman)- An Editor's Guide to Adobe Premiere Pro
Compressor Essentials from Lynda.com
(older but still good) Marquee, Media Composer (3.5) and Basic/Advanced Color DVDs (1.0) from Vasst.com
Contact me through my Website


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