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Colin Froud
Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 16, 2010 at 6:31:21 pm

I have been tasked to encode 100 video files to Ogg Theora.

Not my choice, but the client is always right ;-)

I am editing using Final Cut Pro. I have Soronson Squeese 6.5 and Compressor. All software is up to date. My platform is a 2x2.26 quad core mac running 10.5.8.

The video files I need to encode are sourced from HD 1080i XDCAM.

I cannot find an encoder anywhere. I have tried a couple form the net, including ones which were recommended in other threads, but they either don't work or don't appear when you install them!
I have tried 'Simple theora encoder', but it does not work. I have also installed ffmeg2theora, but it does not appear anywhere on my computer!

I thought Squeeze may be able to encode to Ogg Theora, butI can't see any settings, and searching their help pages and forums has drawn a blank.

Fire Foxes 'Fire fogg' does work for individual files, but it is limited as I have 100 to do, and it doesn't seem to like running multiple sessions of itself at the same time!

All in all, I have dranw a blank.
Can anyone help?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 16, 2010 at 7:19:13 pm

Does not work?
http://ostatic.com/blog/video-conversion-with-simple-theora-encoder

and this doesn't help?
http://www.engagemedia.org/help/tutorial-encoding-on-a-mac

What about Xiph?
http://www.xiph.org/quicktime/

Handbreak with VLC installed can supposedly encode to Theora
http://handbrake.fr/

There's nothing you can do to persuade them to use WebM which may be supported in Squeeze 6.5?



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Colin Froud
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 16, 2010 at 8:10:00 pm

Hi Craig,
thanks for the quick reply!

The Simple Theora Encoder did not seem to operate correctly.
I tried Mpeg4's, .mov, and .flv, but all failed in some way or another.
Perhaps it only works with AVI's?

I have installed Xiph onto my Mac and that does at least let me play back ogg files through Quicktime.
I tried encoding through quicktime under the export settings, and that does work, but I have 100 to do and need to find some way of automating multiple files as I can't baby sit every single one!

I am looking to see if I can do a batch export through final cut, but need to reduce the file size down to 570x320 and that is proving difficult to achieve!
At the moment I can't work out how to get Ogg out of Quicktime conversion. The Xiph Theora codec is there, but the Ogg extension isn't given as an option...

I've ran out of time for tonight, but will look at exporting a .mov to the correct file size and then trying to encode.

Thanks again for your reply.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 16, 2010 at 8:20:59 pm

That tutorial I linked to is only a few months old so it must of worked for them back at that point.
Try Handbreak.



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Colin Froud
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 16, 2010 at 8:45:55 pm

I think I may have cracked it!
After restarting squeeze I now have Ogg options in the Quicktime export settings. I have full control over frame size and data rates, so will give that a go.
I think adding the Xiph has enabled the option.
I'll give it a go.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 16, 2010 at 9:07:07 pm

The problem with Ogg Theora through Quicktime is that you get stuck with the .mov extension. The same thing happens in Telestream Episode. Let me know if you can get .ogg

[Colin Froud] "I think I may have cracked it!"
It takes cracking a few oggs to make an omelet . . . ogglet? Theoraetically speaking of course.



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Colin Froud
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 16, 2010 at 9:29:22 pm

Ha, Ha, ha.
I should've seen that one coming!

Squeeze is encoding the video using Xiph Theora and Ogg for the audio, and gives it an ogg. extension. Yes, the full stop is in right place!? (Strange).

I cannot play back the encoded files though... I get audio, but no picture, so I am not sure if the video is being encoded properly or not.

I think I may have to send the files to my client as squeeze has encoded them. I just may not have the right codecs to be able to play back the video. No video box is displayed, only a sound bar in Quicktime.
Tried playing them on my PC, but no good either.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 16, 2010 at 9:38:42 pm

[Colin Froud] "I cannot play back the encoded files though... I get audio, but no picture, so I am not sure if the video is being encoded properly or not."

Have your tried playing in VLC?



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Colin Froud
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 16, 2010 at 9:53:43 pm

Just tried it in VLC on my PC, but it doesn't want to know at all!



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Nathan Grout
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 25, 2010 at 6:25:00 pm

"Squeeze is encoding the video using Xiph Theora and Ogg for the audio, and gives it an ogg. extension. Yes, the full stop is in right place!? (Strange).

I cannot play back the encoded files though... I get audio, but no picture, so I am not sure if the video is being encoded properly or not."

If I'm not mistaken, the OGG file extension is for audio only, while OGV is used for video. This might explain why you are only getting audio.

With the use of Theora/OGG by many browsers in the HTML5 standard for video embedding, I have a feeling that we will see lots more clients wanting Theora/OGG encoding. I've really been helped in my understanding of HTML5 by this article: http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html, though I haven't tried the recommendations of this section about batch Theora/OGG encoding: http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html#ffmpeg2theora


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Craig Seeman
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 25, 2010 at 6:57:32 pm

In my experience you can not encode to ogg Theora (video) in professional encoding apps such as Squeeze, Episode, etc. For licensing reasons they can't. They can access it through Quicktime components but that will not give you the correct extension for ogg video.

[Nathan Grout] "With the use of Theora/OGG by many browsers in the HTML5 standard for video embedding, I have a feeling that we will see lots more clients wanting Theora/OGG encoding."

??? IMHO OGG is dying/dead. Theora is a very poor and inefficient codec. For those that need free open standard they will likely use WebM (VP8). Professional apps such as Episode and Squeeze can encode to WebM.

Only Mozilla browsers are holding out against H.264 HTML5 and they will be supporting WebM. Given the vast and growing number of iOS devices that support H.264 HTML5 and IE9's coming support for it H.264 will likely dominate.

In short, there is little reason for anyone to encode to Theora once Mozilla browsers support WebM. iOS devices, IE9, Safari all support H.264 HTM5. People who desire to reach Mozilla browser will probably use H.264 in Flash.



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Nathan Grout
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 25, 2010 at 9:42:56 pm

"??? IMHO OGG is dying/dead. Theora is a very poor and inefficient codec. For those that need free open standard they will likely use WebM (VP8). "

I agree that VP8 is a great codec, but right now, Theora is more prevalent when it comes to browser support (see http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html#what-works). Unfortunately, there isn't a single web-standard codec. I'd be all for VP8 taking on that role, but it just hasn't happened yet.

I guess my point is, right now Theora/Ogg is a prevalent form of standards compliant web compression and until that changes, we as video content generators are going to have to support it.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 25, 2010 at 11:10:04 pm

[Nathan Grout] "Theora is more prevalent when it comes to browser support "

More prevalent than WebM but not more prevalent than H.264 HTML5 which both YouTube and Vimeo offer for example and what is used on all iOS compatible web pages.

The next version of FireFox will support WebM. Nightly builds are available.

[Nathan Grout] "Unfortunately, there isn't a single web-standard codec. I'd be all for VP8 taking on that role, but it just hasn't happened yet."

H.264 dominates by a W I D Emargin right now with HTML5 thanks to Apple. Anybody claiming otherwise doesn't look at web analytics. It's not even close.

[Nathan Grout] "I guess my point is, right now Theora/Ogg is a prevalent form of standards compliant web compression"

It's not at all. Mozilla browsers support Theora but that's about it. Flash dominates and most flash these days is H.264 and although support for HTML5 is weak most of the support is H.264 due to iOS. As noted before YouTube and Vimeo support H.264 HTML5 (although Flash dominates).

[Nathan Grout] "we as video content generators are going to have to support it."

Very few use Theora except for those that were concerned about licensing and that's not even an issue given MPEG-LA's position on H.264 licensing.

The link you post is dated and has no information about browser market share and web analytics. Pleases don't post misinformation claiming it to be current fact.



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Nathan Grout
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 25, 2010 at 9:49:28 pm

"??? IMHO OGG is dying/dead. Theora is a very poor and inefficient codec. For those that need free open standard they will likely use WebM (VP8). "

I've had great results with Theora, so I guess I'm not sure what you are talking about. But your comment brings up another interesting question. What are the best options for Webm compression?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Sep 25, 2010 at 11:16:40 pm

[Nathan Grout] "I've had great results with Theora, so I guess I'm not sure what you are talking about."

You apparently aren't an experienced compressionist. Sorry if that's insulting but Theora can't come close to either H.264 or WebM for quality/efficiency. There's been some very good comparisons.

http://www.streaminglearningcenter.com/articles/ogg-vs-h264---round-one.htm...

[Nathan Grout] "What are the best options for Webm compression?"

Telestream Episode 6 and I believe Sorenson Squeeze 6.5



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Andrew Wilson
Re: Ogg theora encoder
on Oct 22, 2010 at 8:16:06 pm

ffmeg2theora is available only through the command line interface, and it is supposed to be good for batch conversions, though I have yet to learn how, but perhaps you will have more luck. The link below is some examples of tags you could use.

http://v2v.cc/~j/ffmpeg2theora/examples.html


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