FORUMS: list search recent posts

live webcast needs

COW Forums : Compression Techniques

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Kim Gwydir
live webcast needs
on Jun 19, 2010 at 7:29:56 pm

Help -

I am taking on a project involving live webcasting of sporting events - we have done it in the past with a free livestream account with 1 camera. Now we need to be more professional
Needs
1) Video switcher - need multiple cameras, the newteck tricaster was suggested - when i called them they said only the 8,000 dollar model (tricater pro) will work to stream - I got a guy who was on his second day - not very informed. There is a base model for 5000 - would that work? Is newtek tricaster the best option for me? It is a start up so price is important.

2)scoreboard graphic overlays - we will need graphic overlays - espn game style stuff- for showing the score and outs and stuff - tricaster have a package for this but hard to get answers from them as to if it what I need.

Help - any advice would be appreciated - we plan on using livestream to do the streaming but that is not a must.

Appreciate any help anyone could give. Thanks


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 19, 2010 at 8:25:13 pm

Are you on a budget?
Wirecast $449
http://www.telestream.net/wire-cast/overview.htm

There's a Wirecast forum right here at the COW
http://forums.creativecow.net/telestreamwirecast

Gotham Girls Roller Derby are using it for example. Their main site
http://www.gothamgirlsrollerderby.com/

Here they are using their free JustinTV account.
http://www.justin.tv/gothamgirlsrollerderby
and here's a game. Please go about 30-35 minutes in to actually get to the beginning of the bout. They started the stream very early to test setup. It was 4 cameras (Pany DVX-100) to MacPro with firewire cards. They wrote their own scoreboard program.
http://www.justin.tv/gothamgirlsrollerderby/b/265175384




Return to posts index

Kim Gwydir
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 19, 2010 at 9:39:21 pm

I tried looking at those links and it says does not exist. I look into the wirecast - the only issue I had was with the graphic overlays for the scoreboard stuff.


Return to posts index


Kim Gwydir
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 19, 2010 at 9:50:29 pm

Here is another issue was thinking about - I have 2 HD camcorders that I need to switch between - I did look at wirecast - I thought it would not work because I have to have 2 firewire connections. Which brings up another issue - how can I connect the 2nd camera which will be a ways away from the first? Can you extend firewire a long distance? Is that feasible?

Thanks


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 19, 2010 at 10:54:00 pm

[Kim Gwydir] "I have 2 HD camcorders that I need to switch between - I did look at wirecast - I thought it would not work because I have to have 2 firewire connections."

So you're using HDV? Just add firewire card to your computer. Unless you have the bandwidth to stream HD you're waisting precious CPU/GPU resources of the computer. It's much easier to set the HDV cameras to DV mode.

Some people are using Blackmagic Intensity Pro cards which has HDMI input for HD now that many HD cameras have that.

Note that Tricaster doesn't have firewire in . . . nor HDMI in last I checked. You'd have to use analog or HD-SDI (and the latter only on their very expensive top models).

[Kim Gwydir] "Which brings up another issue - how can I connect the 2nd camera which will be a ways away from the first? Can you extend firewire a long distance? Is that feasible? "

GothamGirls are using firewire repeaters.
There are many ways to do this depending on your specific logistical issues.
Some will actually convert video to ethernet for long cable runs and convert back near the computer.
You can certainly do long runs with SDI but multi input SDI is still being tested with Wirecast.

There's certainly long composite BNC and SDI runs possible if your cameras support it.

It's all in your budget. Startup means different things to different people
http://www.newtek.com/tricaster/compare.php
If you want more than 3 cameras (4 for instance) you'll have to start with Tricaster Studio at $10,000
If you want HD you're up to the TCXD300 at $15,000 but you're back to 3 cameras
Need 4 or more HD cameras and it's the TCXD850 at $25,000

You can get Tricaster Pro, up to 3 Standard Def cameras using either component, composite, Y/S (S-Video) in. No firewire.

Tricaster is great but going to HD is going to be expensive. Going to 4 cameras is going to be expensive.

GothamGirls is decidedly a "budget" situation. They're on JustinTV. They were just picked up in May on WNYC-TV. ESPN3 is showing interest.

If you're willing to stick with SD and want more than 3 cameras then Tricaster Broadcast at $12,000 might be good. Tricaster also has add on packages for scoreboard and slowmotion instant replay (ka-ching).

Just to be clear, no firewire (and thus no HDV on firewire), no HDMI in Tricaster.
HD Component, HD-SDI for HD.
SD Y/C or even component though is possible as most firewire cameras have these connectors as well.

"Best" depends on what you can afford as well as need.





Return to posts index

Kim Gwydir
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 20, 2010 at 12:39:43 am

Great information - so to be clear - I can add a firewire port to my laptop (I have 1 already) and thus have 2 camcorders attached to one laptop and use wirecast to switch - the 2 firewire connections both using video would not crush my CPU? And by budget i mean "as cheap as possible" - the tricaster is not the direction I want to go in at this point until we can find a way to make this profitable.



Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 20, 2010 at 1:19:44 am

[Kim Gwydir] "I can add a firewire port to my laptop"

If your laptop has an Express port you can get a firewire card for it.

[Kim Gwydir] " the 2 firewire connections both using video would not crush my CPU? "
It should be fine if they're DV going in to a 17" MacBookPro (only current Mac with Express port). HDV would stress any 2 core system. I would suggest at least i5 and really recommend i7 processor.

[Kim Gwydir] "And by budget i mean "as cheap as possible" - the tricaster is not the direction I want to go in at this point until we can find a way to make this profitable. "

That's why I used Gotham Girls Roller Derby as an example although they actually use a MacPro because they're using 4 cameras (internal plus 3 firewire cards).

This is their Scoreboard software. Rinxter
http://rinxter.com/www/home/home.jsp
It's free to all Roller Derby leagues but it looks like they'll customize for pay. They might be willing to do this for other sports.





Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 19, 2010 at 10:25:46 pm

All the above links are live. Maybe your browser.
GothamGirls created their own Scoreboard software. It looks spectacular. That's why I want you to look at the game link. They're thinking of putting it out commercially. It works on Mac and Windows. Score keepers can enter in the data wirelessly from other parts of the stadium. Desktop Presenter brings it in to Wirecast and it's chroma keyed over the show live. The scoreboard computer operator controls the transitions and changes layouts (which they've prebuilt).

Wirecast 4 will have a scoreboard feature built in though. It'll also have better graphics supposedly. It's VERY EASY to import your own though. Must people doing professional work make custom graphics.



Return to posts index

Philip Nelson
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 21, 2010 at 6:06:59 pm

One problem that I've seen with using Firewire for live switching is that it has such HIGH latency.

For most professional projects, the latency is why they don't use firewire cameras. Also you are limited to short camera cables with firewire.. Not a chance of doing a quality multi camera sporting event, play, etc with firewire because the cameras have to be so close to the computer.

Just a few more things to consider when making your decision.

Philip Nelson
NewTek
SVP - Strategic Development


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 21, 2010 at 7:05:40 pm

Gotham Girls Roller Derby are having no latency issues with 4 Panasonic DVX 100s on separate firewire buses. Their use of firewire repeaters has been without issue.



Return to posts index

Philip Nelson
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 21, 2010 at 7:14:42 pm

Any time you use firewire for live there will be latency. Even with hardware firewire encoders.

It doesn't matter to some people but it matters alot to others. If you are thinking about adding IMAG into the equation, it becomes even a bigger deal. as projectors also add in latency. A little here and a little there add up to a bad japanese movie dub.. ;)

How long are you running the firewire cables?

Philip


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 21, 2010 at 7:40:26 pm

The Roller Derby track is 88' announcer area was past one end and the TD area (Wirecast computer) was at the other so it was around 100' for the longest cable/repeater run.
You can get a sense of camera placement here although you might need to go in about 30 minutes for the start. I believe two cameras were within 20' or so but one was arena and the other at the other end showing the backs of the jammers when they lineup. Basically one corner has one camera. The other corner near the gear has two and another mid arena.
http://www.justin.tv/gothamgirlsrollerderby/b/265175384



Return to posts index


Philip Nelson
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 21, 2010 at 9:31:35 pm

Craig,

Very nice!!!

Philip


Return to posts index

Rich Rubasch
Re: live webcast needs
on Jun 22, 2010 at 12:40:32 am

MediaSite Live by Sonic Foundry is a truly portable and live video switching solution. Have a look at it...it is a truly hardware based robust tried and true industry standard. Nothing else is close.



Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production and Post
Owner/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]