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chris gorman
Need smaller Program Stream files
on May 8, 2010 at 7:15:05 pm

I need to deliver some video clips for an interactive kiosk 4:3 display. They need to keep the file size down to about 1MB/sec., same as what they have used before, eg., 720 x 480 video that scales up on play to 1024 x 768.

I can give them 720 x 480, or preferably already with 1024 x 768 frame size so it does not have to scale up. They can only play "Program Stream" video files, mpeg-2. I'm working with 1440 x 1080 and not sure what happens "underneath" when I use the 1024 x 768 sequence (set to square, anamorphic)

My footage was shot hdv (Z1U), captured and edited w. ProRes 422 8 bit, dropped into custom 1024 x 768 sequence to adjust frame size.

In Compressor I used Program Stream, Generic, and have been experimenting with settings to get good quality and small size....but it's a lot of trial and error with no success re:size yet. In compressor Format window: HD 1440 x 1080, 29.97, 16:9, Progressive,

Source Inset window: Crop to 4 x 3 1.33:1

The footage is talking head, (keyed greenscreen) with a simple solid background and still graphic.

I also tried coverting first to dv 4:3, but the quality was not good when scaled up.

Any suggestions?

PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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Chris Blair
Re: Need smaller Program Stream files
on May 8, 2010 at 8:16:18 pm

I don't have a direct answer to your technical question, but we do menu design along with producing videos for interactive kiosks, and all of them have used either standard MPEG2 video or standard DVD video inside VIDEO_TS folders. They scale fine on the screens and look remarkably good. One is a touch screen information system that displays information and videos on a 2nd 42" LCD screen, with the menus appearing on a 19" touch screen across the room. We were concerned about how the SD videos would look scaled on the 42" LCD...and to our surprise, they look great.

We also don't compress them down as much as you're talking about, as an interactive system typically needs a fairly powerful PC to run properly, including it's display card, which typically will have hardware video decoding on-board. So we usually compress using standard DVD compression rates between 5-8MB/sec, and they've all played just fine. The one that uses the large screen has a $2000 dual-monitor graphic card with all sorts of hardware decoding and additional software to help with scaling etc.

Anyway...you might try a standard DVD compliant MPEG2 file and see how it works before jumping through more hoops testing.

I'm not sure why they'd need video compressed to 1MB/sec. That's a lot of compression and it won't look very good even using MPEG2. And the computer would have to be ancient to not be able to playback DVD compliant video. I have a 10 year old PC at work that can play DVD videos fine from a DVD-ROM or direct from disk.

The interactive displays we've worked on have all been programmed using Adobe Director, which supports a few video formats, but using DVD authored files seems to be the easiest way to program them so they'll scale properly to fit a kiosk display (at least that's what the programmers all tell us).

Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com
Read our blog http://www.videomi.com/blog


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chris gorman
Re: Need smaller Program Stream files
on May 8, 2010 at 9:42:38 pm

Thank you. I'd like to try Standard DVD mpeg-2 inside a video TS folder, but don't understand how you play the file or give it to someone to play and have it play with the audio...they seem to be separate files unless burned to a DVD.

Can you explain please?

PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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Chris Blair
Re: Need smaller Program Stream files
on May 9, 2010 at 12:42:04 am

When you create DVD files inside a VIDEO_TS folder, the video and audio is muxed together for you into a file with a .vob extension. You don't have to burn those to DVD. You can open that folder inside DVD player software and it will play it just like it's a DVD.

With that said, perhaps their kiosk requires an MPEG2 program stream file. Which also shouldn't be a problem and in terms of compression is identical to the .vob file inside of a VIDEO_TS folder. When you author a DVD, if the MPEG2 elementary streams (separate audio and video files) are compliant, no re-compression occurs, they're just multiplexed (video & audio combined) into the .vob program stream.

And...you can author an MPEG2 program stream (with both audio/video) from virtually any encoding application, using DVD compliant settings. Just about evey encoding app I've used has a preset to make those somewhere, and even if they don't, they usually will have a drop-down to create a program stream.

Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com
Read our blog http://www.videomi.com/blog


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Daniel Low
Re: Need smaller Program Stream files
on May 9, 2010 at 1:54:49 am

Chris, you are on a Mac. This stuff is childs play!

Try iDVD if you really don't have a clue!

__________________________________________________________________
Sent from my iPad Nano.


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chris gorman
Re: Need smaller Program Stream files
on May 9, 2010 at 3:26:03 am

I don't think you've read this thread. It would be simple if all I was trying to do is make a DVD...done that hundreds of time with DVD Studio Pro.

I think I've come up with a workflow that will do the job based on chris blair's posts above. MPEG Streamclip has been helpful making the final file.



PowerPC G5 DP2.3, 4GB DDR SDRAM, ATI X800XT, OSX.4.11, QT 7.5.5, FCStudio2, FCP 6.0.5 Sonnet 5 Bay SATA (RAID or JBOD as needed), ACD 23" & Sony NTSC Monitor via Matrox v.1
Sony ZIU hdv, edit w.ProRes


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