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how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors

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dan freshman
how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 5, 2009 at 4:45:39 pm

Hello,

I am making DVDs for the marketing company within my company. I am starting with (mostly) 10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 720X486 NTSC (some is pal). I am wondering if people could give advice on how it can look good on televisions and on progressive monitors. Am I going to have to de-interlace the footage?

thanks
dan


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Daniel Low
Re: how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 5, 2009 at 10:44:54 pm

Leave it interlaced. Any decent DVD player or flat panel will do the deinterlacing for you.

__________________________________________________________________
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance."

Steve Ballmer To USA Today


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Brian Alexander
Re: how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 6, 2009 at 3:07:06 am

I agree that the best idea is to leave this movie interlaced since the original footage is interlaced but...

Most commercial films on DVD are progressive frames @ 23.98fps. These files are encoded with an NTSC flag set so the DVD players know to add a 3:2 pulldown for proper display on TVs.

Now I haven't studied DVD processing chips so maybe someone has a clearer picture on DVD hardware than I do or maybe you can point me towards a place I can learn this information (please).

What does 29.97p do on a DVD player? Is there both an interlacing processor and Deinterlacing processor on DVD players? (I've put 29.97p footage on a DVD and really couldn't tell a difference between i/p with the DVD player set on both i and p).

What provides better image quality, Deinterlacing w/footage prior to DVD creation or Deinterlacing footage in hardware? (I'd guess hardware unless we were talking some high end, motion compensated Compressor deinterlacing)

Not trying to thread-jack, just wanted to clear some mysteries while the topic was fresh.

Thanks.

--
Brian Alexander
Sr Video Engineer
Freeman AVS


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Daniel Low
Re: how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 6, 2009 at 11:27:31 am

There's a huge difference in the quality of video processing available in todays DVD players and flat panel displays.

It's used to be the case that you need to spend huge amounts of money to properly process (Deinterlace, scale and cadance) video to get it to look good on an HD panel but that is no longer the case anymore.

One of the best value processors around can be found in the very low cost (£100) Toshiba XDE500 DVD players.

Others processors to look for include http://www.hqv.com/

IMO these are far better than mainstream software tools, but I'd like to be proved wrong.

__________________________________________________________________
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance."

Steve Ballmer To USA Today


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dan freshman
Re: how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 6, 2009 at 5:27:14 pm

In general would it be safe to assume that DVD players are going to flag 23.98p footage to become NTSC? Or is that typically higher end DVD players.


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dan freshman
Re: how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 7, 2009 at 8:18:34 pm

I'm sorry to be beating this subject to death, but i'm looking for advice for encoding settings for DVD. My files are currently in photo jpegs 720X486 ntsc. But I have access to digibeta uncompressed footage of most of my material as well. Using a blackmagic capture card, I have to set it to some frame rate to bring it in, usually ntsc. My ultimate goal is to have no interlacing problems on computer monitors and tv monitors...like any hollywood DVD. What is the big difference that professional DVD authoring is doing? What frame rates do they have their media files set to? I put bad boys II next to my footage and there's just no basis for comparison. What are the main differences? (besides wha they were originally shot on)


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Daniel Low
Re: how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 7, 2009 at 9:09:20 pm

Digibeta is great but it does not come close to whatever they used for BadBays (probably film shot at 24 progressive frames)

Any desktop compression application; compressor, episode or procoder for example, are some way off the capabilities of what the hollywood production studios use if used as a normal person would.

You are some way off the compressionists that drive these systems.

Interlacing is a nasty evil monster that should have died already but we'll have to live with it for some time yet.


__________________________________________________________________
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance."

Steve Ballmer To USA Today


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Brian Alexander
Re: how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 8, 2009 at 3:36:53 am

[dan freshman] "My files are currently in photo jpegs 720X486 ntsc"

Are these Photo JPG files interlaced or progressive?

[dan freshman] "What is the big difference that professional DVD authoring is doing?"

Pro DVDs are created from film transfers at 24 (23.98) Progressive frames per second.

The 24p material is encoded with NTSC (29.97) flags that trigger telecine processors in DVD players.

The DVD players output 29.97 fps. (I don't want to rewrite the process so look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#DVDs)

You don't see telecine processing on TVs because TVs processors know how to deal with video fields and frames separately; there are 2 interlaced frames in a telecine sequence.

If you captured film (movie) footage from a broadcast source and played it back on your computer you would see telecine processing.

On the other hand...29.97fps (59.94 fields) played back on computers are deinterlaced (when activated) by 1 of three methods: Scan Line Duplication (hardly used), Scan Line Interpolation (single field), and Field Merging (combining fields).

[dan freshman] "What are the main differences?"

29.97 NTSC and 24fps (23.98)

Want to simulate Hollywood DVDs? Start with 24p material. That will get you one step closer to your goal.


--
Brian Alexander
Sr Video Engineer
Freeman AVS


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dan freshman
Re: how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 10, 2009 at 2:48:45 pm

Hello Brian,

Thank you for your post. It was very helpful.

All the footage I have uncompressed is at 29.97 interlaced on digital beta, alot of the sources of this material was a variety of formats from film NTSC and PAL and stuff on 3 quarter inch...I would like to do some tests of creating DVDs from this footage at 23.98fps instead of 29.97 to try and get rid of some of the interlacing problems we've had. People have mentioned that 24p footage when on DVD gets flagged to have pulldown added when necessary. How does this work? Is this something inherint in most/all DVD players or is this something that needs to be added during the encoding process?

thanks
dan


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Daniel Low
Re: how to compress to DVD for TVs and progressive monitors
on Aug 10, 2009 at 3:00:37 pm

[dan freshman] "All the footage I have uncompressed is at 29.97 interlaced on digital beta"

It's worth mentioning that DigiBeta uses a 2:1 compression ratio, it's not uncompressed. D1 and D5 are uncompressed.

__________________________________________________________________
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance."

Steve Ballmer To USA Today


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