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archiving lossless video to hard disk

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clyde villegas
archiving lossless video to hard disk
on May 22, 2008 at 9:47:45 am

I have posted this in Premiere Pro forum because that is what I use to edit and archive my work. Then I came across this great forum and thought that it's best if I also post my questions here.

I archive to hard disk by using export to file command then clicking on settings and choosing cinepak. That's what I always do. Then this morning I used Adobe Media Encoder and used MPEG 2 format with NTSC DV Generic preset and set audio to PCM. Comparing the two compressed files of the same video, I noticed that the the MPEG2 exhibited lesser grains and banding. What surprises me is that the MPEG2 archived video is only 500++ MB while the AVI (using the first method) is 1.8 gigabytes. Does this mean MPEG2 is a better way to archive file either for master or as an intermediate file for future processing?

Also, when you burn to tape, there is no window where I can adjust bit rate and other compression stuff. Does that mean burning to tape is lossless or uncompressed? When watching videos that I archived to tape, I notice artifacts, banding, etc. Is there a way to burn to tape without processing so that there will be zero compression? I really need to know the answers to these because we're about the free our internal drives for upcoming projects and need to know the best and most efficient way of archiving. Using the export to file command and setting the compressor to None or No Compressor is best but the file size is way to big. God bless.


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Daniel Low
Re: archiving lossless video to hard disk
on May 22, 2008 at 3:01:47 pm

Cinepak is NOT an archive file format but rather a delivery format. It's extremely old and very very poor quality.

Standard MPEG-2 is not really an archive format either, although people do archive I-Frame only MPEG-2 at 50Mb/s, this is not what you'll get out of Adobe Media Encoder which is designed to produce MPEG-2 for use on DVDs. Comparing Cinepak to MPEG-2 is like comparing a steam engine to a V8 twin turbo.

I've not heard the phrase, 'burning to tape', burn to disc yes, print to tape yes, lay-off to tape yes.

If you tell us what source format you work with DV, HDV, DVCAM, Digibeta etc, we'll be able to much better answer your questions.



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Please post back saying what solved your problem. It could help others, and saying 'thanks' is free!


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clyde villegas
Re: archiving lossless video to hard disk
on May 22, 2008 at 11:46:15 pm

Sorry, it's not "burn to tape." It's export to tape. Using Premiere, I click on File > Export > Export to Tape.

I'm using Canon XL1 miniDV camcorder to shoot. Then use premiere pro 2.0 to capture and edit. Now, I'm looking for a way to archive the edited video (with some video files destined for further processing in After Effects) with the same quality as the raw video that I shot with my XL1. I think that the more the computer processes the video, the more the quality gets deteriorated. I'd like to know what settings to make to achieve that purpose. Thanks Daniel and God bless.


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Daniel Low
Re: archiving lossless video to hard disk
on May 23, 2008 at 9:38:30 am

Indeed you are correct, the more you process video the more the quality deteriorates. As such the best way to archive your media is too leave it as DV.avi.
One could suggest converting it to high bitrate MPEG-2 which would reduce the space taken and reatin much of the quality, but it would also make it more difficult to go back and re-edit/re-purpose.
Storage, especially slow offline storage is so cheap these days.
Obviously you could also keep your MiniDV tapes as a second archives/backup.




__________________________________________________________________
Please post back saying what solved your problem. It could help others, and saying 'thanks' is free!


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clyde villegas
Re: archiving lossless video to hard disk
on May 23, 2008 at 11:22:23 pm

I clicked on File > Export > Movie. Then in the Export Movie Settings, I chose Microsoft DV AVI as the file type and DV NTSC as the compressor. In the rendering options (bit depth), I chose "use project settings" then put a check on "Optimize Stills." I also used 29.97 as the frame rate.

It solved my problem! The exported video looked the same as the rendered video in my timeline (source video plus effects).

Now the only thing I'd like to know is how to do the same when archiving to tape. It gives me peace of mind when I have everything archived in the tapes in my drawer. Thanks and God bless!


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Jeff Greenberg
Re: archiving lossless video to hard disk
on May 25, 2008 at 4:29:12 am

Technically speaking, when you capture DV, you're just copying the data off the tape.

If you were to use cuts only, and then use the Export to tape, you'd have no lossage in quality, as the data has merely been moved. Only in a render does it go through a compression/decompression cycle.

When you export as mentioned before (as DV) it's just copying the data (and any renders) to a new file (essentially flattening it.)

If you cut your show out to tape (even if it's a crash record - where you hit play and record on your camera/deck) it's a copy of the finished show.

Best,

Jeff G
Principal Instructor
Future Media Concepts

FMCTraining.com
Editorsretreat.com


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clyde villegas
Re: archiving lossless video to hard disk
on May 25, 2008 at 12:19:37 pm

Thanks Jeff! How about this:

I have videos edited in Premiere where some clips are live action (shot with Canon XL1) and others are motion graphics (created in After Effects using lossless/ uncompressed settings).

When I export to tape, I'll be copying the live action data from the project to the tape. Which means, quality will be the same. But how about those motion graphics clips? How will I adjust quality settings so that the quality is the same as the original file created in AE? God bless.


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Daniel Low
Re: archiving lossless video to hard disk
on May 25, 2008 at 12:37:33 pm

The motion graphics clips will be rendered down to 25Mb/s 4:1:1 which is DV NTSC. You have no control over this. DV is DV, it's fixed at 25Mb/s.

You might want to cast your eyes over this excellent page:

http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-tech.html




__________________________________________________________________
Please post back saying what solved your problem. It could help others, and saying 'thanks' is free!


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Jeff Greenberg
Re: archiving lossless video to hard disk
on May 25, 2008 at 4:22:11 pm

You really can't export synthetic items to a tape format that is anything other than uncompressed. Premiere can't really export these elements (how do you handle the alpha channel?)

No for these, the best way to handle it, is to backup to CD/DVD/Hard Drives.



Best,

Jeff G
Principal Instructor
Future Media Concepts

FMCTraining.com
Editorsretreat.com


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