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How to eliminate sawtooth edges with Sorenson Squeeze..?

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Jennifer Hartzog
How to eliminate sawtooth edges with Sorenson Squeeze..?
on Apr 28, 2008 at 10:03:09 pm

Hi,
I have been experiencing an ongoing technical challenge in which my video that I export from Media 100/844x has sawtooth edges on it when I import it into Adobe Encore DVD authoring. I posted about it in the Media 100/844x forum at http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/95/855401 . A short video sample of this issue is at http://jenniferhartzog.tripod.com/ .

It was suggested that I use Sorenson Squeeze, so I downloaded the trial version of 5 and used the preset DVD_NTSC_Lg_Burn option [MPEG-1/2 (mpg), with MPEG-2 video compression, MPEG Layer 2 audio compression, auto-crop, deinterlace, and Burn to DVD settings]. I also applied an auto-crop, deinterlace filter on top of that. But the edges still remained after I burned it to DVD and watched it on a CRT monitor.

Is there a better preset that I should be using that won't produce the sawtooth edges?


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Daniel Low
Re: How to eliminate sawtooth edges with Sorenson Squeeze..?
on Apr 29, 2008 at 9:45:06 am

I've read through all the various posts in the other forums and the bottom line is that you have a problem with deinterlacing. The setting you've outlined above would indicated that you applied a deinterlace filter twice. You only ever need one deinterlace pass.

The problem maybe that the video windows scrolling across within the larger window may not be deinterlaced while the overall clip has been deinterlaced - it's not possible to tell from the one sample you have supplied. If that is the case, you need to deinterlace the scrolling video clips used in your DVE (I'm not sure how 844x handles interlacing in DVE's)

Squeeze does not have the best deinterlacing filters out there but it should be capable of doing a decent job.

__________________________________________________________________
Please post back saying what solved your problem. It could help others, and saying 'thanks' is free!


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Jennifer Hartzog
Re: How to eliminate sawtooth edges with Sorenson Squeeze..?
on Apr 29, 2008 at 4:16:36 pm

Hi Daniel,
Thank you for your reply--I appreciate it!

The overall clip does have deinterlacing artifacts in it--whenever someone or something is moving, even if it is a minute movement. It's just more pronounced in the scrolling boxes, which is why I posted it as an example.

Something in your email got me thinking, so I tried using Sorenson Squeeze on some other types of video. The raw footage of the boxes that you saw were SVHS and/or Digital S-VHS. I wondered if that was the problem, so I squeezed some Mini-DV samples, but there were deinterlacing artifacts/sawtooth edges on those as well. (BTW, I did take off the second deinterlace filter--thanks for that info.)

You said: "...You need to deinterlace the scrolling video clips used in your DVE (I'm not sure how 844x handles interlacing in DVE's)"
I looked in the manual for M844x and it says: "To produce the highest quality, 844x converts input interlace images to a progressive format, occuring at the original input field rate." Does that make sense to you? I don't quite follow..

The trainer I had on M844x said that "When we export we use "Self contained movie." 844/x No conpression. Then we import it into Sorenson Squeeze. Very nice!" I'm doing the same thing but it won't squeeze self-contained movies--it gives me an error message of: "There was a compression error while compressing the file. Error 0x8004000." So I've been bringing in Quicktime movies with no compression, millions of colors, best quality, 29.97 fps, and 720X480, which looks predictably better with MiniDV than VHS raw footage when no one is moving, but still has the artifacts with movement..

Any ideas??

Thanks,
Jennifer


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Daniel Low
Re: How to eliminate sawtooth edges with Sorenson Squeeze..?
on Apr 29, 2008 at 6:53:34 pm

So 844x is deinterlacing the content prior to the DVE which is normal.

However Squeeze is not performing a proper deinterlace by the looks of it, which it should do without a problem. Please double check your settings for the deinterlace filter.

It is a complete waste to export from 844x with no compression, I would recommend that you export using the Quicktime MotionJPEG B codec set to just above 75%

If you want to learn more about codecs in general take a look here:

http://codecs.onerivermedia.com/

It is certainly worth trying another transcoding application - Procoder is one of the better ones on Windows:

http://www.canopus.com/products/demos/index.php




__________________________________________________________________
Please post back saying what solved your problem. It could help others, and saying 'thanks' is free!


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Jennifer Hartzog
Re: How to eliminate sawtooth edges with Sorenson Squeeze..?
on Apr 30, 2008 at 3:30:35 pm

Hi Daniel,
Thanks again. I tried your suggestion about exporting with the Quicktime MotionJPEG B codec from M100/844x. I couldn't find an option to set it at 75%, as you said. I used these settings: Color, Best quality, 29.97, 2 field count, even field dominance, and 720X480.

I wasn't quite certain what you meant by adjusting the deinterlace filter. Under the Audience Preset menu, I selected Disc, then DVD, then the DVD_NTSC_Lg_Burn, which includes both Deinterlace and Autocrop filters. When I right-clicked on it and chose Edit, I didn't see anywhere that allowed me to change my deinterlacing settings, other than whether to choose "bottom" or "top" for the field order. I tried this filter anyway and brought it into Encore--it still showed the deinterlacing issue.

I thought maybe you meant to adjust the Filter preset instead, so I used that deinterlacing filter instead of the built-in one with the DVD_NTSC_Lg_Burn option. I deselected the cropping, and chose the "auto adaptive blend" in the deinterlacing menu. (There were other options, such as Adaptive blend, blend, discard odd field, discard even field, but when I tried each one with the preview, it still looked the same.) Since you had said not to use two deinterlacing filters, I had to choose a different Audience Preset. Since all the DVD options had deinterlacing built in (and no option that I could see to remove that), I chose the Audience Preset Web -> Download -> Quicktime -> HQ. It wasn't really what I wanted, but I didn't see anything else that came close to what I'm trying to do. Well, it didn't work because it cut it down to 640X480 (which Encore won't accept), even when I deselected the autocropping at the top and tried to choose the NTSC 4:3 option or selected "Same as source" in the frame size under the edit menu of the filter.

This is my first time using Sorenson Squeeze, so I really didn't know what to choose--it's a guessing game. If you have any more specific suggestions, that would be great. Meanwhile, I will look into the Procoder program...

Thank you so much!!

Jennifer



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Jennifer Hartzog
Re: How to eliminate sawtooth edges with Sorenson Squeeze..?
on Apr 29, 2008 at 4:22:50 pm

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