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Arty
exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
by
on Dec 29, 2007 at 7:37:03 pm

has this happened to anyone ?

i'm taking 720p video shot on a hvx200 i than try to export it into a self contained movie

im bringing it into squeeze 4.5 but all i get is a black screen but i do hear audio
so it's only half bad ! ha

any suggestions ?


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Dec 31, 2007 at 2:44:59 am

what video codec are you using? Squeeze should be able to read all codecs on your system, but sometimes that doesn't actually work out.

Try rendering with a different video codec.


Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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arty
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
by
on Dec 31, 2007 at 4:56:41 am

the thing is i'm not even at the render level
it's when i bring the video into sorenson squeeze
all i'm getting is a black box where the video shoudl be playing...

the audio runs fine....i hear that

the video well that's just a black screen

i have updateed the latest quicktime...
it's sorenson squeeze 4.7 i just upgraded that as well...is there a patch update as well ?

project due tuesday...i need help !!! ha


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Dec 31, 2007 at 2:52:24 pm

By "rendered" video, I mean exported or whatever your video editing program calls what it does when it makes a final video file.

You are putting the rendered video into squeeze.

So, before squeeze, in your video editor, in the place where you prepare the settings for export or output or render - that's what I'm talking about. That;s where you need to change the video codec.



Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Arty Gold
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Dec 31, 2007 at 5:57:40 pm

hi arron

i'm messing with some of the codecs and it seems to be working

thanks alot for the suggestion....i never had to do that before...it always just worked !

my next question is how would i go about taking my videos shot at 16x9 ratio (720p)
to compress down to a 4:3 (320 x240) without having it look all squished and smashed ?

it looks great in rectangle from but it needs to be a square...do i do that in fcp or can it be done in sorenson while i compress...

i'm buying your dvd by the way
mazel tov


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Dec 31, 2007 at 9:30:04 pm

[Arty Gold] "i'm messing with some of the codecs and it seems to be working"

Make sure to use uncompressed video or a lossless or near lossless codec - quicktime with animation compression is a great example of that.

[Arty Gold] "my next question is how would i go about taking my videos shot at 16x9 ratio (720p)
to compress down to a 4:3 (320 x240) without having it look all squished and smashed ?"


Hmmm. I don't think you can do that in squeeze, but I am not in front of my work computer and can;t check that at the moment.

What program are you rendering your video in?

Normally, in After Effects, before rendering, I'd take the final widescreen composition and nest it into a 4:3 comp and scale it down proprtionally to fit in my 4:3 comp, giving it the black bars (letterboxing) above and below.

Since I don't know your situation, I'd say - render out the movie as 16:9, then bring it back into your video editor and place it in a 4:3 comps and scale it to fit in there, same as above.




Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Daniel Low
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 2, 2008 at 10:24:53 am

No point using an uncompressed codec if the source was compressed - best bet is to match the source codec as closely as possible. Using the Animation codec is just a huge waste of resources (time and drive space) unless your source is uncompressed Animation type material.
A great intermediate codec is PhotoJPEG with the quality slider at 75%

Squeeze is not capable of trancoding material while adding letterboxing. More professional applications like Episode from Telestream are capable of this. You'll probably find that Episode doesn't have any of the problems display exported video like Squeeze does.


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Arty Gold
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 2, 2008 at 2:05:15 pm

yeah...
that's the thing

i don't want the letterbox...
i basically just want a sqaure

picture a speaking head...with a white background
i shot it so i would have space to crop it out

i'm just trying to figure out the best workflow to make that happen

thanks for all the help !!!!


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 2, 2008 at 2:48:51 pm

but it's at 16:9 - you're going to cut off the edges of your screen on both sizes if you make it 4:3.

Well, if that's what you want to do, use the cropping feature in Squeeze - in the video window you can just grab the edges and crop with the red lines. I have not used this feature, but that;s what it's there for.

You best bet however is to follow my instructions from the last post only instead of fitting everything in, just drop the 16:9 video into the main comp and DON'T shrink it to fit 4:3. It should fill up the entire thing - BUT your edges will be cut off.

Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Daniel Low
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 2, 2008 at 2:54:34 pm

So you have a 16:9 clip and you want to make it a 4:3 clip, with no distortion?

Simple: Apply a 4:3 crop on the 16:9 clip and resize to 320x240 or another 4:3 frame size.


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 2, 2008 at 3:23:22 pm

If you want anything more specific than that, you're going to need to tell us what software you're using.

In What program are you capturing the video off your camera?

Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 2, 2008 at 3:35:11 pm

duh - the subject says FCP....

Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 2, 2008 at 2:54:55 pm

[Daniel Low] "No point using an uncompressed codec if the source was compressed"

With full respect, I disagree. Every time you compress you lose quality. If your source is compressed, you will only make it worse by compressing twice. Although I agree with you that photo JPEG is within the zone of good looks. It's a great compromise when you have to.

However - Episode is a mac only program, which Arty has not said he's on. Also, Arty is controlling (at least it's my understanding) the original footage so that he should be able to get the source uncompressed. I might be wrong about that.

But, let me say this... waste of space is never a good excuse with compression. You should only compress (use a lossy codec) at the last step. No matter what. That's the nature of video - it takes up a lot of space when you do it right.

Oh - out of curiosity - as someone who has never used Episode - what makes it "more professional?" I always want to learn more on the subject.



Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Daniel Low
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 2, 2008 at 4:04:56 pm

Arty is working with FCP - a Mac only product, as such I've assumed that he's working on a Mac.

While you obviously lose quality everytime you (re-)compress, Arty is working with (heavily compressed) HDV material, in this case probably at 19.7Mbit/s (720p). Exporting to uncompressed or Animation rockets that datarate upto around 848Mbit/s (8 bit).
It's also a very slow process.
Obviously working with that uncompressed material in realtime would be much much harder (if at all possible) and any transcoding from it will required much more resource.

Maybe your definition of 'uncompressed' is different from mine?

PhotoJPEG at 75% (or above) is as good as anybody would need in this instance.

Episode is more professional simply because of the range of formats and codecs it supports as well as some very sophisticated and high quality pre-processing, Squeeze doesn't come close with its preprocessing options. Episode also has the option of Episode Engine which takes it firmly into the enterprise space.
I've used pretty well all the transcoding applications out there and Episode is up there with the best. Squeeze is prefect for those who only work with a small handful of formats and don't necessarly want or need to get their hands 'under the bonnet'.



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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 3, 2008 at 12:47:49 am

[Daniel Low] "Arty is working with FCP - a Mac only product, as such I've assumed that he's working on a Mac."

Like I said - Duh. I was seeing the forest instead of the individual tree there. Sorry.

[Daniel Low] "Obviously working with that uncompressed material in realtime would be much much harder (if at all possible) and any transcoding from it will required much more resource."

That's true, but you will lose quality. Video keyframes can end up in the wrong place which means the keyframe is based off what was previously an interim keyframe and now there is major degradation.

[Daniel Low] "Maybe your definition of 'uncompressed' is different from mine?"

I actually said: "Make sure to use uncompressed video or a lossless or near lossless codecl - quicktime with animation compression is a great example of that."

I've had animation compressed video be smaller than Sorenson compressed video. It depends on the footage. If you have a lossless or near lossless codec that gets the job done, use it.

[Daniel Low] "Episode is more professional simply because of the range of formats and codecs it supports as well as some very sophisticated and high quality pre-processing, Squeeze doesn't come close with its preprocessing options."

I'm assuming you've gone into the advanced settings then, and played with those. There are a butt load of pre-processing options that the average user never sees (and shouldn't, considering most people don't understand them).

[Daniel Low] "I've used pretty well all the transcoding applications out there and Episode is up there with the best."

Not being mac based, and not having seen the software, I will take your word for it. It does make me think seriously about getting a mac though. When you say up there with the best, what other software do you lump in with that?



Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Daniel Low
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 3, 2008 at 12:24:44 pm

Aharon:
"That's true, but you will lose quality. Video keyframes can end up in the wrong place which means the keyframe is based off what was previously an interim keyframe and now there is major degradation."

HDV is LongGOP, I didn't realise that all these 'uncompressed'or lossless CODECs were too!?!! ;-)
The only way to avoid the keyframe 'issue' you are referring to is to use a codec that doesn't use any temporal compression. The Apple Intermediate Codec fits the bill, but seeing as you haven't any experience of Mac you probably wouldn't know about it, otherwise you might have recommended it in the first place.

Aharon:
"I've had animation compressed video be smaller than Sorenson compressed video. It depends on the footage. If you have a lossless or near lossless codec that gets the job done, use it."

Wow! - I started working with Quicktime about 16 years ago and have always* used the Animation codec for 2d material with a tendency for large areas of flat colour, i.e. animation! (* I did go through a phase of using it for green-screen material). (Apple are pretty good at naming their codecs for the job they were designed for).
Whatever, I've never seen a movie compressed with the Animation codec be smaller than one compressed with the Sorenson codec, although I guess it may be possible if the material is of a stationary white cat in a snow blizzard or a black cat down a coal mine at midnight and/or you've totally screwed your Sorenson settings!
Sure, go for your big uncompressed i-frame only format if you have the luxury of huge amounts of storage and can afford to waste large amounts of time.

Aharon:
"I'm assuming you've gone into the advanced settings then, and played with those."

Err, well, yes. That's my job and I would never consider Squeeze an option in my professional capacity, although I'd recommend it to my mum to use for her holiday videos ;-). We were referring to why Episode is more professional than Squeeze were we not? Episode has adavanced settings where Squeeze does not, as such, Squeeze is not a pro app.

Aharon:
"Not being mac based, and not having seen the software, I will take your word for it. It does make me think seriously about getting a mac though. When you say up there with the best, what other software do you lump in with that? "

Seriously, how can you consider yourself an authority on the subjects of compression and transcoding if you have such limited experience?
I've reached my opinion of Episode after using it and its predecessor Compression Master, in anger, and in a professionl capacity, comparing the results with output from the likes of everything from Procoder, CarbonCoder, Compressor, FFMPEG, KulaByte etc, to the likes of Anystream, FlipFactory, Digital Rapids, Tandberg and so on.



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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 3, 2008 at 2:52:26 pm


[Daniel Low] "eriously, how can you consider yourself an authority on the subjects of compression and transcoding if you have such limited experience?"

That's a very fair question. You know, it's funny, on the subject of compression, I really don't. Not after having spent a month and half talking to true experts (explained below). I consider myself knowledgeable on the subject of video for the web, and I stand by that.

I made a DVD on video compression that answers the questions that every video artists should know if they want to put their video on the web. I didn't make a video that would teach everything there was to know about compression. I've never claimed to have done that. It would be a boring as hell 10-DVD set, I think.

And before you ask me: "how can you even make a DVD on video compression for the web if you aren't an expert?" - I didn't rely on my own expertise. I spent 8 hours a day, for 6 weeks, on the phone with engineers and developers from Adobe, Apple, Sorenson, Techsmith, On2 and several other companies, and read tech doc after tech doc to make sure I familiarized myself with the task at hand (and one I have to do every day): Teaching video artists to put their material on the web.

After having shown the DVD to said experts for review, they have all told me it's a good DVD that answers the proposed questions correctly, and presents the material in an entertaining and non-intimidating fashion.

I'm sure there are true experts out there who really understand this stuff at an almost quantum level, but most don't have the ability to explain it in a way that joe average video guy (like me) can understand.

As a practical user of the product he was having an issue with, I answered Arty's question, which I do here almost every day. That's why my head is at the top. Not because I'm claiming to be an "expert."




Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Daniel Low
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 3, 2008 at 3:49:22 pm

Aharon,

Sorry, my last post may have been unresonably harsh.

Congrats on the DVD, it must have been quite an undertaking. I know, I was approached to write a book on transcoding several years ago but after creating an outline I realised that it was going to be a mammoth task that would consume more of my life than I was willing to sacrifice at the time, and the money on offer wasn't great either!

You say your name is at the top because you answer questions here on a daily basis, funny, I've been doing the same for many many years under a number of different names (the archive search shows one of my early posts from 2001!) and yet I've never had my name at the top, and I've never been asked to put it there.
I guess you need to know the right people to get your face up top!


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arty gold
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 3, 2008 at 4:18:56 pm

ha

sorry i started this little war of compression !

that wasn't my intention...

i have found both of you quite helpful...
in the end the only thing i could really do anyway was trial and error until i got it right !!!

i think the most important thing i always go by is whatever program you use...learn it...live it and use it all the time.

although i never heard of episode so i'm gonna give that a shot !!!


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Daniel Low
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 3, 2008 at 4:30:55 pm

I think 'heated discussion' rather than a 'war' ;-)

Episode:
http://www.flip4mac.com/episode.htm



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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 3, 2008 at 5:39:52 pm

I would even go so far as to say some misunderstandings compounded by my not reading carefully.

Understand that I see the animation codec come through all the time because I work in animation - A lot of flat BG's with 1 or 2 colors of text. Not exciting, I know. That's what I was referring to when I said that it can come in smaller than sorenson. It is NOT appropriate for filmed video.

Arty - I wasn't taking your platform or source into account - other than to note that Squeeze couldn't read it properly. That was completely my fault. I should NOT read these things when on vacation, because my mind is on the beach.

FWIW, Dan, I see that your posts here at the COW have been very helpful, and you are obviously a knowledgeable guy. Your contributions are greatly appreciated.

Again, what applications do you consider akin to episode?



Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 4, 2008 at 3:24:48 pm

Hey man, it


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Arty Gold
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 4, 2008 at 4:32:47 pm

i'd also like to point out that i do have a pretty good handle on compression (maybe not as good as you two !!!) but what happened here was something that i've never experienced because i'm moving into the beautiful and all be it rectangular world of HD...

i don't think my brain can keep up with the amount of knowledge this industry throws at me !!!!

ha

at the very least i really really appreciate all the help...you guys really helped me out with the debate !!!


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 4, 2008 at 4:42:22 pm

Dude - we all encounter issues like this when we take the skills we already have and apply them to something new. Did not mean to insult.

My point was only that telling you to buy something else that had more options to play with wasn't necessarily the way to solve you're problem.

On the other hand, if you MUST use a codec that Squeeze can't handle, then follow Dan's advice and find a better tool. No question that he's right there.

But if you can spare some space temporarily for compression purposes, no need to find a new app to solve you're problem.

Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Arty Gold
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 4, 2008 at 5:02:07 pm

i'm not insulted ! in the least i usually go by a simple motto said by a very brilliant man



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Daniel Low
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 4, 2008 at 5:31:12 pm

Wow - huge post!
I totally appreciate what you say regarding Squeeze being a pro application, it absolutely depends on your level of expertise and your expectations. I guess the latest version of Apple iMovie or Windows Movie Maker would seem quite advanced and professional to someone coming from say a fine arts background who's had little or no exposure to digital video.

That said, over at the DVD authoring forum it's all talk of DVD Studio Pro and Sonic Senarist (both pro apps), not DVDit or iDVD.

In my expereince Squeeze is a very 'dumbed-down' transcoder, (Evidence of this is the three huge icons at the top for import file, watch folder etc) - that can be capable of very good results given the right combination of high quality source, minimal preprocessing and the right choice of codec, (and skirting around the bugs) however when given a more challenging task where one needs to get under the hood and start 'tweeking' it falls short.

That said, there's nothing wrong with using it in a professional capacity but if you and I were pitching for the same transcoding job and I was using Procoder or Episode (or ever cleaner!) would you be confident of winning the job?

'Pro' doesn't mean 'difficult to use'. Episode and Procoder are simple to use and along with the included help files make it easy to get to, and understand, what the advanced features do, and what effect they'll have. Squeeze simply lacks these features.

I hope you find these debates as healthy and interesting as I

Have a great weekend.

ps Squeeze has come to the rescue for me once or twice in the past when others have failed ;-)


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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 4, 2008 at 6:19:37 pm

I'm, not very good at brevity, and I also use commas a lot.

[Daniel Low] "when given a more challenging task where one needs to get under the hood and start 'tweeking' it falls short."

I'll have to take your word for it, because I have not had a problem I couldn't solve in the 2 years I've been using it, with very few esceptions. It's been flexible enough for me to get the job done. And maybe it's because of the kind of work I'm doing.

[Daniel Low] "That said, there's nothing wrong with using it in a professional capacity but if you and I were pitching for the same transcoding job and I was using Procoder or Episode (or ever cleaner!) would you be confident of winning the job?"

That's my point. Of course not - you're talking about a job where you need advanced knowledge of compression. But that's not what we're dealing with. most of the people here don't have or aren't looking for transcoding jobs - they're usually video pros looking to compress their edited or animated stuff for the web or DVD. They have a problem with the software they're using and are looking for a solution within that framework.

Sometimes anyway.

And sometimes, you're absolutely right - when the time comes, you have to get a better tool or you can't play with the compression big boys.

But in terms of which would you use on a professional encoding job, you are making a huge assumption that is wrong. I don't want a trasncoding job. I want the fastest solution to an end result that my clients are happy with. NOTHING else matters to me.

If you want to talk in terms of that, that;s a whole other ballgame, and one I'd like to play. I am ALWAYS looking for a better solution. But I don't buy anything I don't need. And as long as my needs are met, I don't need anything (wow, that was really profound, wasn't it?).

[Daniel Low] "That said, over at the DVD authoring forum it's all talk of DVD Studio Pro and Sonic Senarist (both pro apps), not DVDit or iDVD."

And that's great - but in case you haven't noticed a LOT of the people here use squeeze or Flix, or lord help me Adobe Media Encoder. And that may upset your compressionist sensibilities, but that's the situation.

While I may not be an encoding expert, I'm using the tools that people are using here, and I come up against the same issues they do. That's why my head is at the top (although I did put in a call about you -let me know if you don't hear anything).

If you want to take it up as you mission to get users here to buy something better, then go for it. You have a lot of knowledge and a lot to offer (I will be trying out procoder just to familiarize myself with the tool and see how the experience compares - thanks for that). But don't forget that in addition to being here to be educated on compression and what tools are out there, people are coming here for help with the tools they are already using. That's something I feel like you're ignoring.

Again, keep the advice coming. Don't let my attitude keep you from speaking your mind.



Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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Arty Gold
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 4, 2008 at 7:02:11 pm

YES !!!
a super huge post...i'm really proud i am a part of it !!!

aaron's point is really a good one...
i don't nor do i want to be a compression-artist...if i had a job come across like that i would most definetely hire some one like you dan !!!!


i just need to do basic stuff like figure out how to control my compression better...

but i am also willing to take leaps into new programs and better ways of doing things

so i will definetly be doing my research on episode !!! although is it mac based or pc based ?








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Aharon Rabinowitz
Re: exporting video from fcp into squeeze only audio ?
on Jan 4, 2008 at 7:12:27 pm

Speaking of which...

In all seriousness, are you available for hire on a project by project basis?

Also, do you ever do training?

If the answer to either question is yes - please contact me offline at the address below.


Aharon Rabinowitz
Email: arabinowitz (AT) yahoo (DOT) com
All Bets Are Off Productions, Inc.
Creative Cow After Effect Podcast
Internet Killed the Video Star: A Guide to Creating Video for the Web


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