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Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?

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Jake Huddleston
Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 21, 2010 at 3:29:21 am

I have been editing a project in Premiere Pro for some time now with the intention of importing my project into After Effects at the end to add effects to each individual clip, but I am having a problem.

Basically every clip in my Premiere Pro sequence/project needs a different treatment in After Effects. I am integrating both 24p footage that requires pulldown removal in After Effects, and 60i footage that I'm converting to 24p slow motion in After Effects. Every clip in my film needs one of these two processes. My film is 12 minutes long with over 150 shots. It is already edited in Premiere.

Importing and exporting every single clip in After Effects in order to work with them in Premiere would have taken an enormous amount of time. I was under the impression that once finished editing, I could import my project into After Effects and add effects to each clip individually, but I am having an issue. My worst fear is that I will have to add each effect and re-edit the entire film. :/

When I import my Premiere Pro project into AE, the Premiere timeline is converted into an AE comp with every edited clip inside. It also imports all of the unedited source files and places them in a bin/folder. My problem is I can't seem to change the clip settings if they're already in a comp (I need to go to Interpret Footage>Main>Conform to Frame Rate). I can only edit these settings in the unedited source file before they are placed in a comp. So if my project is already edited in Premiere and placed in an AE comp, I seem to be stuck because all I can do is add effects like color correction, but not edit the clip settings. Is it not possible to edit the 'conform to frame rate' option of a clip once it is already added to a comp? If I can't find a way to edit each clip's settings once they are already in a comp, that means I would need to do it individually to each unedited clip, basically meaning I'd have to re-edit my entire project. If someone can tell me if there is a way to get around this without starting all over, it would be a life saver. Thanks.

Jake Huddleston


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 21, 2010 at 9:49:53 am

You can 'copy' a clip's Interpret Footage settings. Thereafter, you can paste those interpretation settings onto one or more footage item that you select (multiple selections are supported) in the Project Panel.

You may have 150 footage items but I'm sure they can be grouped based on their Interpret Footage settings.

HTH
RoRK

AE Training in South East Asia. AE templates for sale and rental. Click here for more


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Jake Huddleston
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 3:16:07 am

I'm not sure if you understand my question...my footage is already integrated into an AE comp. All previous instructions I've read say that my 'Interpret Footage' settings need to be set before placing it in a comp. Is this true? I don't care about changing the 'Interpet Footage' settings individually within the project panel...the point is, my clips are already being used in a comp. Can I still change their 'Interpret Footage' settings? I tried doing this, but it did not transfer to the clips if they were already in the comp. It still rendered out unchanged unless I then placed that clip into a new comp. Does that make sense? I need to know if there is any possible way to change these settings once a clip is already inside of a comp I am working with.

Jake Huddleston


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 3:32:31 am

[Jake Huddleston] "my clips are already being used in a comp. Can I still change their 'Interpret Footage' settings?"

Yes you can. Interpret Footage kicks in automatically when you import a footage item. Occasionally, the interpretation may be incorrect, the clip's metadata may have been incorrectly labeled or you simply want to set properties such as looping in the IF dialog window.

Now, all this is relevant to AE. I'm not certain on the mechanics with PremierePro's IF.

My guess is that since the footage and comp originated from PPro, that's where you will need to change the IF and not within AE. I think this seems to be the best solution too from a software engineering POV.

Good Luck
RoRK

AE Training in South East Asia. AE templates for sale and rental. Click here for more


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Jake Huddleston
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 3:49:40 am

Okay, that's beginning to clear things up. Because when I click on a clip in the Project Panel, I can go to 'File>Interpret Footage>Main' and change the settings. However, if that same clip in the Project Panel has been used in a comp, I can got to 'File', but 'Interpret Footage' is grayed out and won't allow me to change anything.

Now, you say that since my comp originated as a sequence in Premiere Pro, I may need to change the clip settings there before converting the sequence into an AE comp? I guess I'm not sure where to begin, but I will try to figure it out. I hope that, for instance, changing the frame rate of a clip doesn't affect the footage if it is edited on a 60i timeline within Premiere. I will try to figure it out and come back if I have any more issues. Thank you for your expertise!

Jake Huddleston


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 4:36:16 am

I'm really sorry that you've put all this work into your project already, but it certainly sounds like you were headed for disaster from the get-go.

I don't care what they say in Premiere school, mixing frame rates is just not right. Certainly not in After Effects. You don't use 60i footage for slo-mo in 24p, and I don't know where you got the wrongheaded notion it was acceptable practice.

Now that you're into this thing up to your neck, I doubt there is anything that you can do to salvage it except to acquire some hard-won lessons on what NOT to do. Just know that when you finish it, it could have looked a LOT better than does currently if you had only observed the basics at the time of shooting, which was a long, long time ago for you, and for which there is no going back.

Bu that's just me: I'm a firm believer in old-fart notions like removing pulldown before you edit, shooting progressive-scan for slo-mo, going with 720 rather than 1080 if necessary to get progressive-scan, and using frame rate conversion software. Real old-school, y'know? What do I know?

If you're lucky, Chris Wright will join this thread and offer up an AE project that'll cure everything from blown-out footage with mixed frame rates to curing the common cold.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jake Huddleston
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 6:24:18 am

Hi Dave,

Haha, I was afraid someone was going to say something like that. *sigh*. Yes, I knew from the get-go that shooting in 60i was going to be painful. I knew that I was going to have to sacrifice half of my vertical resolution. My camera is a Canon HV30, and it does not have the option of shooting progressive at higher frame rates than 30p. But the idea for my film HAD to have slow motion elements in it, and therefore, I was willing to make the agonizing sacrifice. However, if I do say, I have actually found a decent way of removing pulldown from my 24pf footage. Nonetheless, you say 'real old school, What do I know?' Well, my guess is, a lot, or you wouldn't be helping people out on this forum!

Now, you seem mainly disappointed that I have to sacrifice the quality of my film. I have come to terms with it. My real question is, can I change the 'interpret footage' settings of a clip once they have been used in a comp? This is the main thing I need to know right at this moment, no matter how the quality of my project turns out.

And just out of curiosity, you mentioned I didn't observe the basics at the time of shooting. Enlighten me on the specifics? That would be awesome so I don't do it again. As said before, my camera only has 24pf, 30p, and 60i filming options, all in full HD, no 720 or progressive-scan options for slow-mo, but slow-mo was essential.

Thanks for all your help. This whole thing is a major learning experience for me.

Jake Huddleston


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 7:01:55 pm

The big deal you overlooked: removing the pulldown from the 24p footage BEFORE you started editing. I can pretty much guarantee you cut in different spots in the pulldown cadence as you edited; If you remove the pulldown now in AE, you'll doubtlessly discover that you have gaps in your shots.

If you don't mind biting the bullet on resolution, just conform your 60i shots to 23.976 frames/sec (NOT 24!!!!!), then rendering them out in a 23.976 comp and cutting them into your film-frame-rate timeline. Poof! Instant slo-mo!

You can even add a little resolution to your slo-mo shots by looking into getting a third-party plugin called Instant HD from Red Giant Software.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jake Huddleston
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 9:26:25 pm

Hi Dave,

Hmm, that does make sense. I wouldn't have done the pulldown this way, except for the fact that I found a thread with a bunch of people praising the method used. If you want, you can skim the thread here at HV20.com (a great forum for my camera, the Canon HV30):

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?14476-Removing-Pulldown-AFTER-Editing-Us...

They apply a script to the footage (I don't know if that changes anything), and not once did I read someone pointing out the problem you just pointed out. So if they all are in fact, wrong, I feel somewhat mislead.

The slow-mo process you described is basically what I'm doing. However, like I said before, the clips are already in a comp, and I can't change the clip settings once they are used in a comp, only beforehand to the source clips in the project panel.

Let me know what you think of the explanation on HV20.com.

Jake Huddleston


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 22, 2010 at 9:40:49 pm

[Jake Huddleston] "Let me know what you think of the explanation on HV20.com."

Let me quote from the guy who started that thread, a certain Max Goldberg:

"The only problem I can think of is that if you're editing very precisely, frames might be lost from the pulldown, because you might be cutting on a frame that is interlaced... I think. I can't really explain this. If anyone can tell me if this is indeed a problem, it would be nice."

And here's my response:

Oh, yoo-hoo, Mr. Goldberg, it's a problem for the precise reason you state yourself! Frames DO get lost because people cut on the split frame. There's a one-in-three chance it'll happen on any given edit. It's compounded if the out point of clip 1 and the in point of clip 2 are both split frames. And it happens all the time to those unfortunate enough to ignore removing pulldown before editing! That "editing very precisely" stuff is a bunch of malarkey -- it's so easy to screw up editing 24p still at 29.97 it isn't funny. Your technique is nothing but wishful thinking; if there were an easy method to cut 24p footage with pulldown intact to create a true 23.976 file, NLE makers would be shouting it from the rooftops. Your idea stinks on ice.

So that's what I think of that particular thread.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jake Huddleston
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 7:38:28 am

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your response. You don't know how much I've learned about this the last few days. My problem was I didn't fully understand pulldown before I began editing, and I didn't read about it as much as I should have. I must've read Max Goldberg's warning and thought nothing of it. It is a lesson learned for me, and I am just grateful that it is finally cleared up.

As much as I absolutely hate to do it, I am going to go back and re-edit my project. The end result will be much better looking, and I am looking forward to it being so. Thank you for all your help Dave. I appreciate it very much.

Jake Huddleston


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 3:39:31 pm

I'm sorry you have to go back to Square One, but it sounds like you learned a lesson you won't forget. I suspect you may have learned another one, too: sometimes this TV stuff isn't as easy as it looks.

I wish you well with your project.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jake Huddleston
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 8:58:40 pm

Haha, yes, it definitely is not. Part of me wishes it was a little simpler...but hey, I'm gaining experience I need to make it in the video world. Just out of curiosity, are they any examples of videos where pulldown was removed after editing and frames were lost? I know my video would look bad when finished this way, but I really don't have an idea of how bad it would look. Just curious. Thanks Dave.

Jake Huddleston


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Nov 23, 2010 at 9:35:29 pm

[Jake Huddleston] "I really don't have an idea of how bad it would look."

Imagine your completed piece at 23.976 (aka 23.98 or 24p) with flashes of black at many of the cuts. That's how it would look.

If you decided, "Well, I'm not going to change it to 23.976", and you were to burn your project to a DVD at 29.97, you would see flashes of strange-looking motion and interlacing at many of the cuts.

In either case, not a welcome sight.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jake Huddleston
Re: Changing 'Interpet Footage' options of a clip once it is already in a comp?
on Dec 4, 2010 at 7:41:06 pm

Hi Dave,

As a followup to my decision to go back and remove pulldown from my footage and then re-edit, I have am having a few issues. However, here's what I've done so far:

I've begun removing pulldown from my clips within AE, and then rendering them out as Quicktime PNG's like you recommended in another thread. I rendered out just a few so I could test them in Premiere. I edited several of the clips (pulldown-removed) in Premiere and then rendered them out to have a look at the edit points. For 4 clips, there were 3 cuts, and only one looked normal. The other 2 looked like the one below:



The last frame from the previous clip is still visible over the first frame of the next clip. It did not look this way in the timeline (I assume it wouldn't), but only when I render out of Premiere. I'm guessing my problem is still pulldown-related, and I don't know where I went wrong in the process. If you have any advice for me, Dave, I would very much appreciate it.

Jake Huddleston


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