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Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?

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ninetto makavejev
Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?
on Aug 11, 2010 at 8:58:50 am

Hello,

Todd Kopriva steered me over to this forum from the PremPro forum, maybe someone has a good tip/workflow how I can convert uncompressed SD material, which has already been color corrected/mastered to the 709 color space that the HD project requires, using the SD Material as source.

thanks in advance, Ninetto


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Walter Soyka
Re: Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?
on Aug 11, 2010 at 1:38:54 pm

Check out Color management and color profiles.

In AE, start a new project. In Project Settings, set the working space to HD (Rec 709). Import your footage, put it in a new comp, then make sure Interpret footage > Color management > profile is set to SDTV. (Avoid NTSC 1953.)

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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ninetto makavejev
Re: Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?
on Aug 12, 2010 at 11:03:37 am

Thanks for the tip, it almost sounds too easy.

The material delivered to me is (supposedly) uncompressed AVIs in Adobe-RGB space.

So am I right in assuming that setting up the comp as 709 will interpret this material correctly when I export final comp as Blu-ray m2t files?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?
on Aug 12, 2010 at 8:11:37 pm

[ninetto makavejev] "...I export final comp as Blu-ray m2t files..."

I don't know if that's wise. You're going to a lot of trouble to get the colors right, but then you want to compress to m2t files, which will degrade the image quality a little. Is there some other kind of file you can deliver to your client?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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ninetto makavejev
Re: Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?
on Aug 12, 2010 at 9:14:03 pm

Appreciate the thoughts...

This project is for an artist who demanded Blu-ray files to be looped on a Media Player in a gallery.

So, yeah... that's what the client wants, Blu-ray. He did not specify whether he meant Blu-ray H.264 /mp4 or Blu-ray /m2v... but my experience in the art world is the equipment in these places vary wildly, there is almost never anyone with any technical capabilities, and I figured if the gallery has a lower-end media server, it would have an easier time with the m2v files rather than mp4 format.

I have not experimented extensively with Blu-ray files, would there be any reason at all to prefer the H.264 format?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?
on Aug 12, 2010 at 9:34:12 pm

[ninetto makavejev] "This project is for an artist who demanded Blu-ray files to be looped on a Media Player in a gallery. "

I guess this means you have to author a Blu-Ray Disk, right?

To preserve the image quality, render using a lossless codec in AE. Here's why:

Dave's Stock Answer #3:

Don't use AE to compress files for final delivery. The various compressors are there only to make quick 'n dirty files showing a project's progress to producers, clients, the kids, etc. AE is incapable of doing multipass encoding, a crucial feature that greatly improves the image quality of H.264 and MPEG-type files in particular.

Render a high-quality file from AE, and use a different application to do the compression. Popular ones are Adobe Media Encoder, Sorenson Squeeze and Apple's Compressor, which comes bundled with Final Cut Suite. Even compressing in Quicktime Pro is better than compressing in AE.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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ninetto makavejev
Re: Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?
on Aug 12, 2010 at 10:27:03 pm

We are getting slightly off the track here, but funny you quote your wise words, Dave... because since I read them at a different post I decided not to compress output from AE... where my initial suspicions were aroused when I saw the render cue does not offer the same presets for Blu-ray as in Premiere.

But now comes the double-whammy case scenario. In Premiere I simple imported the AE-Comp via dynamic link and will compress output via AME from Premiere: I assume this fulfills your advice NOT to compress from AE? I guess AE would just be acting like a frame server pushing uncompressed frames into Premiere via DynLink, right?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?
on Aug 13, 2010 at 1:39:16 pm

Frankly, I don't know. The workflow sounds proper. If you feel confident using it, I would say you were fine.

If it was my project, I would simply render out of AE and use Adobe Media Encoder. And If I had the time, I would do it twice: once using the method you suggest, and once using my method. Then I'd examine the two files. Then I would know for certain.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter Soyka
Re: Change SD 601 color space to 709 for HD?
on Aug 12, 2010 at 9:40:13 pm

[ninetto makavejev] "I have not experimented extensively with Blu-ray files, would there be any reason at all to prefer the H.264 format?"

Yes -- it looks about the same as MPEG2 at half the bitrate.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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