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AFTER EFFECTS confusions / HDV format

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Etienne Wald
AFTER EFFECTS confusions / HDV format
on Jul 25, 2010 at 12:09:29 pm

Salut à tous!
J'ai acheté une caméra Canon HV30 le mois dernier, et je m'en suis servi pour filmer tous mes clips de skate.
Mon objectif est de pouvoir faire des "Ralentis rampés" (Ramped slow motion en anglais), avec Adobe After Effects CS5 depuis mon MacBook Pro, en utilisant mes clips (qui ont été filmés en mode HDV 60i.
Depuis mon PC, j'ai utilisé Sony Vegas pour capturer les clips depuis la caméra. (En utilisant le port firewire). Mes clips sont en format m2t.
Après avoir regardé quelques vidéos youtube, je suis maintenant capable de faire des beaux ralentis, mais j'ai quelques problèmes concernant l'exportation des clips ralentis.
J'ai pu comprendre, en regardant sur des forums, qu'il faut que j'utilise les mêmes paramètres dans After Effects que le clip importé.

J'ai donc commencé en créant une composition, avec le preset: "HDV 1080 29.97", qui me donne une résolution de 1440x1080.
En ce qui concerne le ratio de pixels, j'ai utilisé "HDV 1080/DVCPRO HD 720 (1.33)".
Aprés avoir mi mon clip dans le timeline, appliqué le ralenti etc.. J'ajoute donc ma composition dans la file d'attente de rendu, afin d'enregistrer la vidéo de mon ralenti.
Mais j'ai alors un problème:

Quels paramètres devrais-je utiliser dans le module de rendu, afin d'avoir la meilleure qualité possible avec le plus petit fichier? Il y a énormément de choix, et je ne trouve pas de .avi, ou de codec xvid comme dans windows.
Est-ce que je devrais utiliser le format "Quicktime"? Si oui, avec quel codec? :s
Parce que je ne savais pas quoi prendre, j'en ai essayé plusieurs.
Dans tous les cas, le fichier était au moins de 160mb, et quelques fois autour de 400mb ! (le clip importé dure 12 secondes, et pèse 40mb)

Mon autre problème est que lorsque j'effectue le rendu de ma vidéo, et la lis avec VLC, le format ne semble pas être bon. Ma vidéo forme un "carré" dans le lecteur, et ne prend pas tout l'écran. On voit donc des bandes noires sur les côtés.
[URL="http://imgur.com/MSPYt.jpg"]http://imgur.com/MSPYt.jpg
[/URL]

I don't really understand why this is happening, since I made sure to have 1440x1080 on my composition, which is the same format as my input file.

As opposed to the slowmotion file, when I play my normal clip in VLC, it fills the whole screen, and no black spaces are on the sides.
When I play it with Quicktime, my clip is ALWAYS full screen.

So please tell me, guys, what settings do YOU use in after effects to render a HV30 clip ? Am I the only one to have these problems?

Thank's A LOT in advance, to the people trying to help me.
Have a good day,
Etienne


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John Mitchell
Re: AFTER EFFECTS confusions / HDV format
on Jul 26, 2010 at 7:35:38 am

can't read a lot of your post as it is in French but I'm guessing your image is not getting stretched out properly, but where? If I could only speak French I'd probably know. 1440 x 1080 HDV is horizontay compressed (not square pixel) so you have to adjust this in two places in AE.

First I'd suggest you interpret your footage correctly as 1.33 PAR in the interpret footage dialiogue box. The it sounds like you are settign your comp up the same way - I wouldn't. Work with square pixels comps once you're in AE, it is much simpler. So work with tha footage in a 1920x1080 comp and provided you've interpreted t source correctly it will look right...



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Etienne Wald
Re: AFTER EFFECTS confusions / HDV format
on Jul 26, 2010 at 12:43:58 pm

Thank you very much for your answer. I didn't realize it was an english forum until I posted it :S (I clicked in a link from a french forum to get here).
Once I realized it, I posted the threat again, just after, thinking it wouldn't be accepted by moderators.
Anyways, I'm very thankful for your answer, and I will try your settings as soon as possible.
Sorry for the french message again, here it is, translated if you want.


Hi all,
I bought a HV30 camera last month, which has been used to film all my skateboarding footage.
I also have the Adobe After Effects CS5 program, on my MacBook Pro.
My objective here, is to be able to do some "Ramped slow motion" with After Effects, using my HV30 clips. (Which were filmed in HDV 60i mode)
From my PC, using sony vegas, i've captured the clips from the camera (using firewire port), which are now in m2t format.
After watching some few youtube videos, I am now able to do quite good slow motions, but I do have a problem.
I did understand however, that I must use the same parameters in After Effects than the input clip.

So I began by createding a composition with the preset: "HDV 1080 29.97" which gives me a 1440x1080 resolution.
Concerning the Pixel aspect ratio, I chose "HDV 1080/DVCPRO HD 720 (1.33)"
After putting my clip in the timeline, applying the slowmotion etc.. I then add my composition to Render Queue, in order to save my new slowmotion movie.
But then comes my first problem:

What kind of settings should I put in the "Output Module" in order to get the highest quality, with the smallest file? There's many many choices, but I can't find any .avi or xvid codec like on windows. Should I use the "Quicktime" format? If yes, with what codec? :S
Because I didn't know, I tried a few myself. But the file seems to always be at least 180mb, and sometimes around 400mb ! (the normal input clip is 40mb)

My other problem is that when I render my slowmotion file, and play it with VLC, the format doesn't seem to be right, my video is a "square" and does not fill the whole screen (I can see black space on the right and left side). http://imgur.com/MSPYt.jpg
I don't really understand why this is happening, since I made sure to have 1440x1080 on my composition, which is the same format as my input file.

As opposed to the slowmotion file, when I play my normal clip in VLC, it fills the whole screen, and no black spaces are on the sides.
When I play it with Quicktime, my clip is ALWAYS full screen.

So please tell me, guys, what settings do YOU use in after effects to render a HV30 clip ? Am I the only one to have these problems?

Thank's A LOT in advance, to the people trying to help me.
Have a good day,
Etienne


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Michael Szalapski
Re: AFTER EFFECTS confusions / HDV format
on Jul 26, 2010 at 1:37:51 pm

You must make sure that your output settings match what you want your final output to be.
One suggestion would be to create a 1920x1080 comp with square pixel aspect ratio and place your composition in it. Then render it out with square pixels and it will play back just fine.

As far as your final output goes, what you're describing is not that strange. HDV cameras all shoot very compressed video, unless you change settings After Effects outputs uncompressed video. Uncompressed video takes up a lot of space.

I would not suggest using After Effects for your final compression though, I'll defer to Dave LaRonde to explain why:
Dave's Stock Answer #3:

Don't use AE to compress files for final delivery. The various compressors are there only to make quick 'n dirty files showing a project's progress to producers, clients, the kids, etc. AE is incapable of doing multipass encoding, a crucial feature that greatly improves the image quality of H.264 and MPEG-type files in particular.

Render a high-quality file from AE, and use a different application to do the compression. Popular ones are Adobe Media Encoder, Sorenson Squeeze and Apple's Compressor, which comes bundled with Final Cut Suite. Even compressing in Quicktime Pro is better than compressing in AE.

Making good-looking compressed files is almost as much an art as it is a science. It is NOT straightforward at all. I recommend asking a few questions at the COW's Compression Techniques forum.
That's not to say that AE can't compress video well, it's just not the best choice for it if your final output is a format that makes use of multipass encoding. (Which yours will undoubtedly be.)

- The Great Szalam
(The 'Great' stands for 'Not So Great, in fact, Extremely Humble')

No trees were harmed in the creation of this message, but several thousand electrons were mildly inconvenienced.


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Etienne Wald
Re: AFTER EFFECTS confusions / HDV format
on Jul 26, 2010 at 4:51:43 pm

Ok, so if I get it right, I should use a 1920x1080 square pixel composition, for my 1440x1080 clip?
Like so: http://imgur.com/0dSrW.png
Then I should render it using Quicktime uncompressed format, which will give me a huge file. But that doesn't matter at the moment, since I will compress it with another software, right?
I hope that it's this simple. Thanks a lot you guys for helping me, I really appreciate it.
Btw, what is your favorite software to compress it? Could Premiere do the work?
Thanks again.
-Etienne.


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John Cuevas
Re: AFTER EFFECTS confusions / HDV format
on Jul 26, 2010 at 5:10:19 pm

If you have CS5, you probably have media encoder, I would use that, a very handy little program.

Johnny Cuevas, Editor
http://www.thinkck.com


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Etienne Wald
Re: AFTER EFFECTS confusions / HDV format
on Jul 27, 2010 at 12:28:12 am

Ok, thank you for your answer.
I'm not very sure about which would be the best format, codec etc.. even in media encoder. I always get 150mb+ files, with a 40mb input video..
Also, what if I want to add my new clip in a short movie later on? (in Adobe Premiere Pro for example).
Should I use all the uncompressed videos, and compress the whole video at the end?
Should I keep the same resolution than the composition? (1920x1080) Or should I use the same resolution than the original file? (1440x1080)
I'm sorry for all these questions, but I really don't understand all this at the moment. I'd really like to make a movie in the best quality possible, with the right resolution, and without having a HUGE file size.
Thank you very much !
Etienne.


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John Mitchell
Re: AFTER EFFECTS confusions / HDV format
on Aug 13, 2010 at 2:17:18 am

I realise this is a bit late but your delivery format depends on where it is going. DVD must be MPEG 2 DVD Compliant streams and audio in Dolby digital. Blu-ray and be H264 or high data rate MPEG2. For the web you have a bunch fo different choices although Flash seems to have the highest penetration amongst the different browsers. For the web got to the Quicktime trailers site and Vimeo andYou Tube and you can see a bunch of different files sizes and codecs in action and guague download and streaming times for your end users. Mobile phones, iPods and iPads all ahve their own solutions and most of the aboe are built into progams like Sorenson Squeeze, Compressor and Adobe Media Encoder.



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