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Weird Frame Rate Issue

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Caleb Armstrong
Weird Frame Rate Issue
on Feb 18, 2010 at 8:02:45 pm

I was given a MOV file that is a mixture of animation (motion graphics) and live footage; they compose separate parts of the clip and there is no compositing of the live action over the animation or any sort of combo. The client would like me to cut a specific portion for demo purposes. They have requested bloom transitions at the beginning and end of the clip.

No big deal, right?

According to AE the MOV file utilizes an Animation codec and has a frame rate of 23.976. When I render out of AE with the Animation codec at 23.98 fps, the animation portion has frame rate issues. Likewise, if I render out at 29.97, the live action portion has frame rate issues but the animation is smooth.

What's going on here? How can I render this out of AE and have both the animation and the live action run at a smooth frame rate. I do not have access to the original files, only the MOV file that they've provided me with. I apologize if this sounds like a fairly basic question, but I'm a little weak when it comes to the frame rate issue.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. As always, thank you all for doing such a great job!

cheers


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Weird Frame Rate Issue
on Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19:21 pm

It would help to know what you mean when you say, "frame rate issues".

But if you're actually rendering out 23.976 footage at 23.98, you're in for a world of hurt: 23.98 as a frame rate DOES NOT EXIST -- it's merely a nickname used by camera and editing software manufacturers for the REAL frame rate, 23.976. It also confuses the uninitiated.

So render the 23.976 stuff at 23.976, for starters.

[Caleb Armstrong] "if I render out at 29.97, the live action portion has frame rate issues but the animation is smooth. "

It sounds like somebody before you mixed frame rates. I'm going to guess that they thought they could mix 23.976 and 29.97 with no consequences at all. To give you a straight answer, you'll need to know what happened to this footage BEFORE it was placed in your hands.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Caleb Armstrong
Re: Weird Frame Rate Issue
on Feb 18, 2010 at 9:05:46 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, Dave. I was able to get in touch with somebody who had a bit more of a clue as to what was going on in the clip. I was told that when it was edited it was, indeed, assembled in final cut and that the animation was built in 30fps and that the footage was 24p. They're looking to see if they can find the archive of the original assets so that I can take a look at everything. I kind of chided the guy I spoke to about why I wasn't given all the assets in the first place and he muttered something about me not needing them and how much money they were willing to pay, etc. Regardless, I was able to get a little bit more information out of this guy.

Now, the MOV file that I was given plays fine in QT - everything looks smooth. When I render out of AE, that's when the issues come into play. I say "frame rate issues" because of the choppy nature of the footage after I've output the clip; people's movements aren't smooth, camera movements are choppy, etc. I'm certain that it could be any one of a hundred other things, but I was kind of shooting from the hip since, at one frame rate the animation played fine but the live action stuff was choppy and vice versa. But, again the frame rate thing tends to confuse me a bit, so it's likely that I'm just not grasping something basic.

cheers

point9@gmail.com


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Weird Frame Rate Issue
on Feb 18, 2010 at 9:57:29 pm

[Caleb Armstrong] "...I kind of chided the guy I spoke to about why I wasn't given all the assets in the first place and he muttered something about me not needing them and how much money they were willing to pay, etc...."

Oh, in other words, they subscribe to the school that if you throw enough money at a problem, miracles happen, huh? Or is it the "let's see you do the job with one hand tied behind your back" client?






[Caleb Armstrong] "...I was told that when it was edited it was, indeed, assembled in final cut and that the animation was built in 30fps and that the footage was 24p..."

Well, that sucks. Get the original materials. When you have them, and if you're still confused, write back. Otherwise, we're just spinning our wheels.

One note: get SPECIFIC on your frame rates. Do it from now on. The frame rate for TV, DVD's and most anything is 29.97, not 30. There are exceptions, although not many, and if you're not specific about this stuff, you can hose yourself royally.

Likewise, 24p is kind of a nebulous term, too. Is this supposed 24p footage actually 23.976 discrete frames/sec? Is it traditional 24p, with 3:2 pulldown added to create 29.97 video? You need to know this stuff or it's easy to get in trouble.

A further note: find out what you're expected to DELIVER... including the frame rate, of course.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Caleb Armstrong
Re: Weird Frame Rate Issue
on Feb 18, 2010 at 10:06:40 pm

Heh. . .I thought it was more akin to the "We had the intern do it" shuffle.


point9@gmail.com


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