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Michael Babbitt
Render crash
on Feb 13, 2010 at 7:28:04 am

Hey guys,

Desperately need some help. I've spent the better part of a day and night trying to figure out what is wrong with this. I have rendered a number of things from this project already with know problem. Go to render a high rez animation of it for making an hd version and I get the following error.



I have searched and gone over everything I can find under "render crash" "render crashing" etc. I've looked at the AE Error Code database (mind though seems to be a different message then the number says in that.

What info can I give you guys to help me figure out what is causing this.

Michael


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David Johnson
Re: Render crash
on Feb 13, 2010 at 3:20:59 pm

In addition to checking the error code, the first things I'd try are:

  • run Adobe Updater to see if there are any current bug-fix updates
  • turn off Open GL
  • run a codec tool like Sherlock to check for any codec issues on the machine
  • if the problem comp has a bunch of effects in it (especially third-party), try some short workspace test renders with select plugins turned off to see if the issue may be related to a particular plugin, the render order if there's a large stack, or if the render fail consistently happens on a particular frame


If none of those help, post as much detail as possible here and in the Adobe AE forum. For example, by "render a high rez animation of it for making an hd version", do you mean the Animation codec? And, the codec, screen size, fame rate, etc. ... of your imported footage, comp and render settings.

Hope this is some help.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Render crash
on Feb 13, 2010 at 5:08:30 pm

http://aeerrors.myleniumstuff.de/?p=293

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/952595

I found these by searching for the error code. Here, you can do the same.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
putting the 'T' back in 'RTFM' : After Effects Help on the Web
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a page of After Effects Help answers your question, please consider rating it. If you have a tip, technique, or link to share---or if there is something that you'd like to see added or improved---please leave a comment.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Render crash
on Feb 13, 2010 at 5:10:45 pm

BTW, this isn't a "crash". It's an error message. A crash is when the application stops working and shuts down unexpectedly. If you search for 'error' instead of 'crash' when you get error messages, then you might have better luck finding information.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
putting the 'T' back in 'RTFM' : After Effects Help on the Web
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a page of After Effects Help answers your question, please consider rating it. If you have a tip, technique, or link to share---or if there is something that you'd like to see added or improved---please leave a comment.


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Michael Babbitt
Re: Render crash
on Feb 13, 2010 at 9:15:36 pm

Sorry, the reason I wrote crash is because after the error came up it would automatically crash, guess I was wrong.


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Michael Babbitt
Re: Render crash
on Feb 13, 2010 at 9:14:41 pm

Todd, thanks but I already covered these.


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Michael Babbitt
Re: Render crash
on Feb 13, 2010 at 9:16:47 pm

David, thanks for the info. I tried three of those from other posts I had found but I didn't know about Sherlock.

Gonna try that and hopefully have some luck.

Michael


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David Johnson
Re: Render crash
on Feb 14, 2010 at 4:49:07 am

Although I run AE on both Macs and Win machines, I just noticed that your error window screen grab is from a Mac ... not sure there's a Mac version of Sherlock and I don't recall off-hand the names of codec tools I use on Macs since I rarely need any of them on either platform.

I only briefly scanned the info in the links Todd provided, but it does seem QuickTime related (I believe the Animation codec is installed via QuickTime). You might want to give those resources another look and make sure you don't have any QuickTime issues ... in one of those threads, a guy with the same issue resolved it using Kevin Camp's advice to isolate specific QucikTime components.


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Michael Babbitt
Re: Render crash
on Feb 14, 2010 at 7:59:35 pm

David,

Yeah, I did a search to try and find something that would do what Sherlock does for the mac but couldn't come up with anything.

So here's what I've done so far beyond all the reading on the site and testing that way.

I completely restored my computer. Fresh OS install, fresh application install. Everything.

All of the footage was shot on a Canon XH-A1. 24 frames per second. All comps are at 24 frames per second. When I render using animation, in the render settings I have it set to use the comp frame rate. If I try to change it in the Animation setting it says to set it in the render setting so I just leave it alone.

Now here's the weird thing. If I render at Half resolution it works fine. If I render at full, near the end of the render (I've tried two that are primarily only animations - very little actual footage - one is about 15 seconds long, one is about 90 seconds long) it always gives me this error.

If I render to MPG2-DVD at highest resolution (settings in render setting) it works fine as well.

I have multiprocessing turned off for the render.

Here are the settings of my memory and cache. I'm running CS 3.



The only reason I'm doing this is I've read everywhere that AE doesn't have the greatest rendering capabilities and I was going to make an Animation render to be able to use in Apple's Compressor for my DVD and web files. Should I just stick with AE and do the renders there?

Thanks for all your help.

Michael


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Render crash
on Feb 15, 2010 at 4:19:54 pm

[Michael Babbitt] "All of the footage was shot on a Canon XH-A1. 24 frames per second. All comps are at 24 frames per second. "

Ah. One statement, two revealing items. First, VERY FEW cameras actually shoot 24 actual frames/second... and your camera isn't a RED. It records 23.976 frames across 59.94 interlaced fields every second. So you have to remove the 3:2 pulldown to get your footage to 23.976, the actual NTSC film frame rate.

Second, you're shooting HDV footage, which can be toxic to AE. AFter you read the following, I'll have another comment:


Dave's Stock Answer #1:

If the footage you imported into AE is any kind of the following -- footage in an HDV acquisition codec, MPEG1, MPEG2, AVCHD, mp4, m2t, H.261 or H.264 -- you need to convert it to a different codec.

These kinds of footage use temporal, or interframe compression. They have keyframes at regular intervals, containing complete frame information. However, the frames in between do NOT have complete information. Interframe codecs toss out duplicated information.

In order to maintain peak rendering efficiency, AE needs complete information for each and every frame. But because these kinds of footage contain only partial information, AE freaks out, resulting in a wide variety of problems.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


[Michael Babbitt] "If I render to MPG2-DVD at highest resolution (settings in render setting) it works fine as well. "

Bad idea. The codec to which you render has very little, if nothing, to do with the success of the render. So before you start down an all-advised path, you should read this:

Dave's Stock Answer #3:

Don't use AE to compress files for final delivery. The various compressors are there only to make quick 'n dirty files showing a project's progress to producers, clients, the kids, etc. AE is incapable of doing multipass encoding, a crucial feature that greatly improves the image quality of H.264 and MPEG-type files in particular.

Render a high-quality file from AE, and use a different application to do the compression. Popular ones are Adobe Media Encoder, Sorenson Squeeze and Apple's Compressor, which comes bundled with Final Cut Suite. Even compressing in Quicktime Pro is better than compressing in AE.

Making good-looking compressed files is almost as much an art as it is a science. It is NOT straightforward at all. I recommend asking a few questions at the COW's Compression Techniques forum.


Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael Babbitt
Re: Render crash
on Feb 16, 2010 at 3:07:57 am

Dave, thank you very much for all this. I realize I still have a lot to learn about compression and rendering and I continue to try and read as much as I can.

Let's see if I can clairfy some of this stuff for myself.

[Dave] So you have to remove the 3:2 pulldown to get your footage to 23.976, the actual NTSC film frame rate.

I did all of my editing (and capturing) in FCP. I then exported to AE where I did all my compositing. Do I need to do this pulldown in INTERPRET FOOTAGE or do I have to recapture everything (I hope I don't have to do that.) If either of these is wrong, can you point me in the right direction (I've been reading all over the site and am having a bit of a confusing time of sorting through to this solution.)

[Dave] Dave's Stock Answer #1:

I can't seem to find any thing on how to convert to a different codec in AE. I find one for FCP (through media manager) but I don't know what effect converting the codec in FCP after I've already done all my compositing?


[Dave} Bad idea. The codec to which you render has very little, if nothing, to do with the success of the render. So before you start down an all-advised path, you should read this:

One of the first things I came across on this site last year when I started reading it was Dave's stock answer #3. I had no intention of actually using the conversion to MPG2-DVD from AE I was doing as a test to see if I could get a full render. I'd much rather use Compressor if I can get it to render out in Animation in AE.

Thank you again for all your time and patience. I know dealing with those of us who have just enough knowledge to be dangerous can be tedious but it does help and I'm hoping to get out of the 'enough to be dangerous" phase as fast as I can.

Michael


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Render crash
on Feb 16, 2010 at 3:18:15 am

> [Dave] So you have to remove the 3:2 pulldown to get your footage to 23.976, the actual NTSC film frame rate.

I did all of my editing (and capturing) in FCP. I then exported to AE where I did all my compositing. Do I need to do this pulldown in INTERPRET FOOTAGE or do I have to recapture everything


Here are instructions for removing pulldown.

> I can't seem to find any thing on how to convert to a different codec in AE.


If you want to bring a movie in and render and export it to a movie using a different encoding/compression scheme, then it's jsut a matter of choosing a format in the output module settings. (Some formats, like QuickTime, are actually container formats, so choosing a codec for one of those requires clicking the Format Options button in the Output Module Settings dialog box.)

It seems that you should really start with the "Rendering and exporting overview".



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
putting the 'T' back in 'RTFM' : After Effects Help on the Web
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a page of After Effects Help answers your question, please consider rating it. If you have a tip, technique, or link to share---or if there is something that you'd like to see added or improved---please leave a comment.


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Michael Babbitt
Re: Render crash
on Feb 16, 2010 at 4:44:30 am

Dave,

Thank you! I will hit this right away and let you know how things go over the next few days.

Michael


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Michael Babbitt
Re: Render crash
on Feb 17, 2010 at 4:39:55 am

's what I get from reading email on my iphone. I now see Todd sent that last one. Much appreciated Todd!


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Michael Babbitt
Re: Render crash
on Feb 20, 2010 at 12:49:28 am

All right,

So I've done a ton of reading on this over the last few days from the recommendations here. Gone all through the lynda.com sight and I actually own the After Effects Apprentice book so I went back to re-read all the sections on rendering I could.

Based on this, I took my footage through the test that Chris describes in one of the links that Todd supplied. As best as I can tell I do NOT have 3:2 pulldown in the footage. Every frame has movement in it and I don't see the 'tooth comb' look.

I abandoned trying to use Animation as I was still getting the same error message and could not seem to locate a bad codecs and isolate it.

Instead I rendered to NONE for compression codec. It actually fully rendered some I'm wondering if this is a solution for now?

Also, I think I'm fubared on the frame rate thing. I rendered out a PNG sequence and I don't get the same number of frames as the composition says are in there. I'm pretty certain this is probably because somewhere I screwed up frame rate but I don't have the time to go back and fix it right now, much as that frustrates me. I'm still learning and feel I definitely need a better understanding of importing footage.

So aside from these two things I've at least got what I assume is a lossless render or at least as lossless as I'm going to get this time around?


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