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Brandon Dennis
After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Mar 31, 2008 at 9:03:56 pm

After Effects crashes nine times out of ten for me. Here are my symptoms:

-If I scrub the timeline, I crash.
-If I try to render anything longer than thirty seconds, I crash
-The error I get most of the time is something like "there was an error with effect: keylight forcing After Effects to quit". I have also gotten this error with brightness/contrast, but 99% of the time it is keylight.
-even with the monitor at draft quality, the program hitches and lags to hell and back, and often crashes.
-If I try to load a project which contains more than, say, twenty files, it will not load the project, and will crash.
-The same happens when I try to import a Premiere Pro project into After Effects.

Here are my system specs:
Intel Core 2 quad CPU x 4
Q6600 @ 2.40 GHz
2.40GHz, 3.00 GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT

Running AE and APP CS3

My typical job:
I do a lot of compositing, with multiple layers, sometimes upwards of twenty different layers. I do a lot of keying--blue screen mostly--and while I used to use other keying effects, I now primarily use keylight. I render my movies in 720x480, but my source footage is a little bigger than that.

I used to work with two monitors plugged into the same video card, but I am now working on one monitor to see if that was the problem, but I still have issues.

I've searched many troubleshooting sites and forums all over the net and have configured my machine in a way suggested on them all and I still have issues.

I tried using a mac, which worked much better and I never crashed, but the types of files I am forced to use are encoded with a codec that is not supported on a mac, so I am forced to work on my PC.

What should I do?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Mar 31, 2008 at 9:19:05 pm

[Brandon Dennis] "....the types of files I am forced to use are encoded with a codec that is not supported on a mac, so I am forced to work on my PC."

Here's a shot in the dark: would this footage happen to be from an HDV camera? If so, it needs to be converted to a different codec that does NOT use temporal (aka interframe) compression.



After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer

...and here's another shot in the dark: would this new computer of yours happen to be running Vista? There are known issues between AE & Vista, chronicled on the Adobe web site. Sorry I can't be of more help than that, but I'm a Mac guy.




Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV


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Brandon Dennis
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Mar 31, 2008 at 9:25:02 pm

Alas no, I can actually get the footage from my HDV camera (.mts files) onto my Mac just fine, using iMovie. The majority of footage I use is captured on my computer using a program called Fraps, which captures very high quality, but encapsulates each .avi in its own Fraps codec, and there is no Mac compatible version of the codec.

I've even tried taking the Fraps .avis, using Virtual Dub to render them as uncompressed files, and yet they still do not work.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Mar 31, 2008 at 9:47:07 pm

Ah, Fraps! This ain't the first rodeo for Fraps in this forum, so I bet you could do a search and get the straight skinny on Fraps & AE.

Heck, in order to remember what was written, that's what I'd have to do.....

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV


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Darby Edelen
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Mar 31, 2008 at 9:55:55 pm

[Brandon Dennis] "but encapsulates each .avi in its own Fraps codec, and there is no Mac compatible version of the codec."

I've read that Perian will allow you to transcode FPS1 encoded video to another format on a Mac... I can't vouch for it myself however.

http://perian.org/

Darby Edelen
Designer
Left Coast Digital
Santa Cruz, CA


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Brandon Dennis
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Mar 31, 2008 at 10:35:58 pm

Ok I did a search of the forum for fraps and it seems that I am not the only one with the fraps to mac problem. But I haven't found anyone with my PC AE fraps problem. The way AE acts on my PC just shouldn't be. The video quality is just fine, when the program doesn't crash.

I suppose I could use AE on my PC to re-encode and save as lossless in QT all the individual files I use for my movies (which are hundreds, so this would be a pain) but I don't know if there is a batch way to just import twenty clips, plop them in the timeline and export each one individually. To do so manually would just not be worth it.

As for just trying to work with AE on my PC, I key out great portions of my clips. Would AE run better if I placed a mask around a character who is shot against a blue screen so that I am leaving much less blue screen for the program to key out? Would that make a difference?

Thanks a bunch for the help all.



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Alan Tonn
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Mar 31, 2008 at 10:39:58 pm

instead of uncompressed, try to change it to still frames, bmp or jpeg. another thought is to change it from the codec you are using to another, by simply reencoding with a different codec. that should force the other codec out of the avi shouldnt it?


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Brandon Dennis
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Mar 31, 2008 at 11:11:50 pm

Yes, but I haven't found another codec in Virtual Dub that keeps my aspect ratio or file quality.

And wouldn't rendering it as bmp or jpeg give me thousands of image files?



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Alan Tonn
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 1, 2008 at 5:09:57 am

yeah

sorry that suggestion for what you are dealing with, 100s of clips, just isnt practical.

if you arent on any kind of deadline i would suggest a reinstall of your computer. windows and your adobe video editing tools only. see if that installation does the same thing. additionally if you have the room to add a second hard drive installing fresh on a new hard drive would rule out both the hard drive as an issue, and windows and the video tools if a new installation worked out and doing it this way could also allow you to keep all the current installation and data.

i know this is a lot of hardware suggestions, thats kind of my background. usually for myself, if i have the time and an issue i cant seem to fix with an unistall and reinstall of my software, then i just kill the whole kit and kaboodle.

i find that sometimes there is other software that somehow manages to encroach on the installation of my video suite and causes me headaches, a good add/remove cleaning can fix things sometimes as well, especially any other video editing software.


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Jiri Fiala
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 1, 2008 at 9:51:52 am

I have finished many, many jobs on my laptop with AE CS3 and Vista, no problem whatsoever...



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kevin camp
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 1, 2008 at 4:02:20 pm

i had originally thought that this might have been a temporl compression issue on the codec, but its sounds like you had tried converting to an uncompressed avi and still had problems....

so, i'll ask a few things...

1. is opengl disabled in ae (the preview pref)? i would disable it entirely.
2. do you have the latest ae update? 8.0.2 is available from adobe's ae downloads page (it doesn't seem to update trough the standard adobe updater for some reason).
3. have you tried to update keylight? there is an update to 1.2v8 at the foundry's website (thefoundry.co.uk, i think).
4. do you have external monitoring set up in ae (like a broadcast monitor connected to firewire or a capture device like aja or decklink)? if so, disable output in the video preview preference.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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Brandon Dennis
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 1, 2008 at 8:09:48 pm

OpenGL was disabled (it was one of my first troubleshooting steps) and I do not have an external monitoring set up. I had not, however, downloaded any patches for AE or keylight. I just downloaded both updates. I am still unable to get any of my fraps footage to work in AE or APP on my Mac, but I have not yet tried AE on my PC to see if the changes helped. I'll find out here in a little bit when I import this project I have been working on.



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Todd Jaspers
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 1, 2008 at 8:45:14 pm

I have been having the worst time with AE CS3. I just got a new system.

MacPro 2.8Ghz 800mhz bus.
NVIDIA 8800 512mb ram.
8 gigs Ram.
10.5.2 all the updates.
AE CS 3 8.0.2

Though its supposed to be multi tread optimized, it stops and pauses all the time while rendering. Freezes a lot and makes me force quit. Whenever I am doing anything too complicated it crashes right out.

My theory is that Adobe doesn't want to make an omtimized product for MacTel because they in a product war with Apple. AKA Adobe Blows...

-Todd





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Brandon Dennis
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 6, 2008 at 5:09:15 pm

Thanks for all the advice folks, but nope, nothing has worked yet. Just tried using AE for a scene I assembled in Premiere. I imported the premiere project (about three minutes long, one hundred or so layers) and thankfully AE didn't crash. However, it has crashed multiple times since then and I have received such messages as "AE crashed while rendering Keylight" or "while rendering curves" or "while rendering brightness/contrast".

In order to use AE, I cannot scrub the timeline. I use keylight on all the layers in one camera shot, collor correct them and add any other effects, hit caps-lock, pre-compose them, render them, import the lossless file, place it above those layers, and then shut off those layers. It is the only way I ca get any work done.



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Kevin Camp
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 2, 2008 at 3:32:13 pm

unfortunately i can't help on the fraps issue... as others have mentioned, if the codec uses temporal (or interframe) compression, ae will struggle with it. temporal compression is common with hd codecs (like hdv, dvcprohd), so it wouldn't surprise me if the fraps codec may be causing issues.

if you can, try converting it to a codec that does not use temporal compression. lossless animation, uncompressed or even photojpeg are good codecs that work well in ae and do not use temporal compression. and, as mentioned, image sequences will also avoid temporal compression.

try any of those and see if the software updates help your crashing issue on either platform. note, i have used dvcprohd footage in ae (v7) with keylight (v1.1) and did not have any problems with crashes, but it did bog ae down quite a bit... so i can't say it is the codec, but at least we can rule the fraps codec out as a problem.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW


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Marie Michelle
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 15, 2008 at 3:18:29 pm

Just in case you have not already resolved this issue, I thought I would mention that I had a similar situation when I first started using After Effects. After much frustration and investigation, it was finally established that it WAS the OpenGL and that it was insufficient to simply disable it in the Preferences. The Adobe guy told me to take the plug-in out of the Adobe folder and put it on my desktop or some other harmless but trackable location. This completely resolved all my crashing issues. The OpenGL problem is allegedly caused by the video card driver, but updating mine never resolved it. Removing it did.



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brandon Dennis
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 15, 2008 at 10:41:59 pm

Oh wow thank you, yes I am still having crashing problems even though Open GL has been disabled for months (though most of my crashes do not have Open GL error messages). I'm rendering a file right now but as soon as it is done I will take the Open GL folder out of my adobe folder and see if that helps. I'll let you know if it does :)



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Brandon Dennis
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Apr 16, 2008 at 12:48:39 am

It worked! I have literally been suffering from this problem for MONTHS, so thank you very much :)



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Bill Clark
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Jul 6, 2008 at 6:50:16 am

Did this stay fixed? I've been having the same problem but believe it is caused by Keylight sucking up too much memory. I've tried removing open gl updating keylight to 1.2.8 but it didn't help. The only thing that worked for me is flicking the 3 gig switch - which messes up the computer in lots of other ways or running nothing else, purging, rendering out the offending scene (3 secs long) and re-importing the render.

Maybe things will get better when AE goes 64bit?

HP8600
Dual Intel quad core
4 gig Ram (why bother?)
Quadro FX 1400 (and I've tried a 1700)
XP Service pack 2

Bill Clark
Origami Films
Slate612


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Kenneth Kirkpatrick
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Jul 12, 2008 at 4:31:40 am

I have been having crashes with Keylight, too. Have you had any softness issues in the final render?



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Brandon Dennis
Re: After Effetcs Crashes 99% of the time -- new computer
on Jul 12, 2008 at 11:21:10 pm

Bill: Yes, manually removing the open GL files from my AE directory has still worked. I crash much less often now. Andrew Kramer says that if you use Color Key to get rid of most of your blue/green, and then throw Keylight on top of that to fine-tune it, that keylight has to work less hard and should save some system resources. I have been doing this faithfully with much compositing (every visible moment in my movies has compositing) and I honestly have not noticed any improvement in my system speed.

I have, instead, encountered a new problem. When I select both my Color Key and Keylight effects in my layer's Effects Properties window and ctrl + c to copy them and paste them elsewhere, about 75% of the time AE crashes to the desktop, without even an error message. I have lost much work because of this. It doesn't happen all the time, but often enough to be very annoying. To get around this, I have to select only one of the effects, paste it where I want it, and the select the other, and do the same. It only crashes when I copy 2 to the clipboard.

Kenneth: No, I have not had that problem. What I have had, however, is my movie squished down to a 4:3 aspect ratio, even though the composition settings are 16:9. I can get around this by changing my workspace to a much smaller part of the entire file and then rendering out the entire movie in ten second segments--this maintains my aspect ratio. But if I try to render something long, it gets squished. Very annoying.



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