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Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV

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Kevin Camin
Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 7, 2018 at 11:53:45 pm

Hello everyone,

In the attachment below, you can see that the subject jitters when it moves across the screen. I understand why it jitters, it's the same thing when trying to move a photo or some text across the screen at a certain speed.

Anyway, it jitters inside of After Effects during RAM previews. It jitter in Quicktime during playback. It jitters when uploaded to Instagram (where this marketing will eventually live).

BUT, for some reason it DOES NOT jitter when played back on a TV from a computer! Does anyone know why this is happening? IT seriously it smooth as hell.

ASLSO, if anyone has a magic solve for removing the jitter from computer playback I'll buy you a Coke (higher frame rate is not an option due to end platform specs and letting things blur more is not an option because the product needs to be sharp).

<a href="http://f1.creativecow.net/12702/24-fps-footage-test">12702_lisoboostedeskateboardv08b.mp4.zip</a>

Best regards,

Kevin Camin


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 8, 2018 at 2:36:03 am

Sorry, but I can NOT download the clip. Old phone.
But if you're experiencing judder -- that's the name for the phenomenon -- and you can't change the speed of the motion all you can do is try motion blur.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Kevin Camin
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 8, 2018 at 2:39:03 am

The weird thing is though if you play it on a TV from a computer it's super, super smooth. I was wondering if anyone knew why that could possibly be when it jitters in After Effects, Quicktime, streaming on the internet, etc.

Best regards,

Kevin Camin


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 8, 2018 at 2:44:00 am

What's it look like in an editing application? It might be the viewer you're using. It might be the file's bit rate is too high for a viewer to keep up.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Kevin Camin
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 8, 2018 at 2:54:20 am

The bitrate is fine. I'm viewing an MP4 in quicktime at a modest rate and also uploading as a test to Instagram and getting the same result.

Best regards,

Kevin Camin


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 8, 2018 at 7:57:19 am

There is motion blur on the controls but not on the skateboard.
Turn it on. I don't care if the subject needs to be sharp, it's either one or the other.
Pick your poison.

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Andrew Somers
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 8, 2018 at 10:36:41 am

The video you uploaded does not jitter on my MacBook at all. It's smooth.

You might have some issue with your computer setup. What are the refresh rate settings of your computer monitor?

Andrew Somers
VFX & Title Supervisor
http://www.GeneralTitles.com


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Kevin Camin
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 8, 2018 at 4:14:30 pm

Hi Andrew,

I'm guessing 60hz. I do have a 2nd monitor at work but it does it off my work laptop, a 2017 Macbook Pro. It also does it on my iphone when I load it up.

It's interesting that it's smooth on your monitor, probably the same reason it was smooth when played back on the TV. It's unfortunately not a solve, because it's jittering on my laptop and on my phone, the two main ways people will be viewing the video. Higher frame rate is not an option since Instagram puts the limit at 29.97 and drops anything above down. I guess all we can do is shoot sharper (faster shutter speed), shoot at 30 vs. 24, and have things move slower.

Best regards,

Kevin Camin


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Andrew Somers
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 8, 2018 at 10:30:20 pm

It’s smooth on my laptop, a MacbookPro. I can’t test on my iPhone due to how it is uploaded here (maybe when I get back in the studio). I’d like to recreate the issue so I could see what you’re seeing.

A shorter shutter speed will increase the perception of jitter.

Question: are you shootng at 24 and converting to 30 somewhere? Then you probably have a pull down problem such as starting on an even field when your target requires odd (or vice versa). I’d need to know more about the specifics of your project and workflow.

Andrew Somers
VFX & Title Supervisor
http://www.GeneralTitles.com


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Steve Bentley
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 10, 2018 at 6:09:01 pm

It could also be a gfx card issue. We've got an AE setup with a GTX 970 and can't find a way to make it playback smooth in AE even though it plays the rendered QT just fine on the same screen.



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Andrew Somers
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 11, 2018 at 7:10:13 pm

Steve Said: It could also be a gfx card issue. We've got an AE setup with a GTX 970 and can't find a way to make it playback smooth in AE even though it plays the rendered QT just fine on the same screen.


Hey Steve,

The problem with nVidia GTX cards is that they are optimized for gamers and not filmmakers. Games want cards that do in excess of 60fps so they have the best response rates. But cards that run this fast rendering a game may not have its settings set optimally for 24 or 23.976 playback.

You can adjust these setting using various utilities.

For OS X there is SwitchResX.app

For Windoze there is nVidia-Inspector

See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7cmdzx/smooth_60fps_guide...

Andrew Somers
VFX & Title Supervisor
https://www.GeneralTitles.com


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Andrew Somers
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 11, 2018 at 7:44:50 pm

Hi Kevin,

I finally had a spare moment to look at this on my main workstation (24 vcore MacPro SSD boot, with 3 wide gamut monitors connected to an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 6GB).

The monitors are two Samsung 245T on left and right, and the center is an NEC PA271W.

With both Quicktime player 7 and 10.4, the video play solid smooth in the NEC and on the RIGHT Samsung. The LEFT Samsung however will occasionally judder, mainly on the FIRST cat (adult calico).

However there ARE setting in Quicktime 7 PROPERTIES that will make this video judder even on the NEC.



If you set for instance "Transparency" to COMPOSITION,, the video studders on all monitors/video ports.


As such I suggest talking a look at the properties editor for the QT mov. And also take a look in this thread of my response to Steve Bentley regarding setting monitors for smoothest playback.

Andrew Somers
VFX & Title Supervisor
https://www.GeneralTitles.com


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Steve Bentley
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 12, 2018 at 2:03:29 pm

Thanks for that Andrew - you're a star!
Now why wouldn't Nvidia tell us about that tool? Do you know how many hours we've spent on the phone with them? Perhaps they weren't happy that we used to do Ruby animations for ATI.
Smooth as silk now!

Cheers



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Kevin Camin
Re: Moving Subject Jitters Across Computer Screen but Not on a TV
on Sep 13, 2018 at 4:22:09 am

This is an awesome discussion. The bottom line is that the video has motion jitter off my iphone which is how this marketing ad will be primairly viewed. There is no way to set my phone's settings to make this go away, let alone everyone else's phone in the world. It is however, intensely interesting that the jitter has been eliminated or reduced on some peoples' computer playback.

Best regards,

Kevin Camin


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