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Red Giant's Particular - consolidation of position [X,Y] and [Z] values

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David Henion
Red Giant's Particular - consolidation of position [X,Y] and [Z] values
on May 9, 2018 at 8:34:38 pm

To all Trapcode Particular fans out there....

Particular has always referenced the position of the emitter with two fields, one [X,Y] and a separate [Z] field for 3D - granted it is a bit clunky, but its been that way forever. In the latest version of Trapcode Suite v14 - they unified this in to a single [X,Y,Z] field. Probably a good move and I totally agree. The problem, however, is that they've NOT included any way to support old projects which had expressions driving the separate [X,Y] and [Z] fields. Upon clicking the "Migrate Settings" button when opening an old project in the new version, you get an error and all the old expressions are gone.

I link Particular position to nulls all the time - often its not a big deal to now relink them, but in some older projects with complex position expressions referencing many other vaules and sliders this can be difficult, especially since once migrated, the old expressions are gone and no way to even see what they were before.

I've been having a discussion with Red Giant support for a few months now to try to get a legacy mode added when migrate settings from an older version. So far my request is still an open active request to the developers but I don't think its getting much traction.

To me the legacy option would work in two ways:
1) Apply a new particular to a layer - it automatically is in the new [x,y,z] mode, but somewhere at the top of its effects settings in an option to switch to legacy [x,y] [z] mode.
2) Open a project that has particular 2 in it - same migrate settings window opens, but an option to use legacy [x,y] [z] mode to retain expressions.

That way, with option 2, at least I can open the project, it still works, and I can see what the expression was - I can then, if I want, go to each one and turn off legacy mode and rewrite the expression, or leave as is.

To make matters worse, the Red Giant installers now no longer let you select which versions of After Effects to install in to. For a while I was using AE2017 to keep the old Trapcode v13 and AE2018 to play with Trapcode v14 - but now the installers overwrite both making it very difficult to keep old projects working (I've had to revert to old version and now can no longer update at all, bummer.)


First - I'd like to hear other's thoughts on this. Not everyone is using expressions to drive position, but if you do - how are you dealing with this? Do you like the idea of a legacy option?

Second - if you'd like to add your voice to request this feature - please open a ticket (https://www.redgiant.com/support/ - scroll down to "Support Request" - I think you'll have to create an account) and request that they add a legacy mode to the latest Particular release to support old [X,Y] and [Z] expressions. The latest reply to me from support included this note: "If you have any colleagues who would also like to see this legacy feature, please encourage them to contact us to add their votes to the tally. It does help us to know how much public interest there is in something." My support ticket is #91181 if you'd like to reference it.

Thank you!

David Henion
http://www.RadiantVFX.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: Red Giant's Particular - consolidation of position [X,Y] and [Z] values
on May 10, 2018 at 1:42:59 am

I'm not sure I'd advocate for a legacy mode. Instead, I would think Migrate Settings should just coalesce the two separate [x,y] and [z] expressions from the legacy effect into one single [x,y,z] expression for the new one (indirectly via a Control Point effect for [x,y] and a Slider effect for [z] if necessary).

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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David Henion
Re: Red Giant's Particular - consolidation of position [X,Y] and [Z] values
on May 10, 2018 at 4:55:12 pm

Yes that would work as well - anything really such that old projects would still work. I just find it surprising that they would implement a change knowing it would break old projects. Can you put in a request for that so they get more feedback on this?

David Henion
http://www.RadiantVFX.com


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Steve Bentley
Re: Red Giant's Particular - consolidation of position [X,Y] and [Z] values
on May 10, 2018 at 6:20:11 pm

I'm surprised Peder wouldn't have implemented it as you suggest Walter. There is a new update out today but alas no fix for this particular problem (pun intended).



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