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Color Management

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Harry Brown
Color Management
on Sep 22, 2014 at 7:35:18 pm

Hi, I am having the issue of the colors not matching the project once rendered out. I did see some previous forum posts, but none see to help...although I may have narrowed it down..

When in the After Effects workspace, in the video viewer, going to the "Show Channel and Color Management Settings"....when selecting "Use Display Color Management", I am seeing the colors I want. The HDTV Rec. 709 is also selected (which I choose in the project settings).

However, once exported, the colors are accurate to when "Use Display Color Management" is not selected. I have messed around with the render settings, made sure the proper color management was selected...but getting same results for both AVI and DnxHD QT.

I'm sure it's probably an easy fix, just a bit of a newbie. Below are links to the images I described. Thank you for the help.


Correct Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7-_Le3rDDQzV0JwS3BqS1F0Ums/edit?usp=shari...

Image once exported
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7-_Le3rDDQzUXJEZ0F2VVkwb1U/edit?usp=shari...


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Walter Soyka
Re: Color Management
on Sep 22, 2014 at 10:44:18 pm

[Harry Brown] "When in the After Effects workspace, in the video viewer, going to the "Show Channel and Color Management Settings"....when selecting "Use Display Color Management", I am seeing the colors I want. The HDTV Rec. 709 is also selected (which I choose in the project settings). However, once exported, the colors are accurate to when "Use Display Color Management" is not selected."

Display color management requires knowledge of both the intended color profile of the media and the actual color profile of the display.

With this information, a color-managed system can transform the image from its native profile to the monitor's profile, altering the RGB values of the image in order to preserve the appearance of color.

An un-managed system does not perform this transformation; it sends the literal RGB values off to the monitor which shows whatever colors are represented by those values in its space -- which may or may not match the colors represented by the RGB values in the media's space.

How are you viewing the export? If you are not viewing it in a color-managed application (like After Effects with color management enabled) then you will see exactly what you saw when you CM disabled in Ae, because in both cases, no display-correcting transform is occurring.

TL;DR -- a good color managed pipeline can assure you that the colors you are seeing and working with are accurate and consistent, but it cannot guarantee that people in unmanaged pipelines will see the same thing you do.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Harry Brown
Re: Color Management
on Sep 23, 2014 at 1:30:26 am

.


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Harry Brown
Re: Color Management
on Sep 23, 2014 at 1:34:46 am

Both images supplied were screen grabs from inside AE. Color management should be enabled. I saw the forum post on that matter earlier. Project settings match the render.

When "Use Display Color Management" is selected, so is the correct color management settings from the project settings.

I understand the importance of a proper and polished workflow....but is there not some function available that will export the colors I am seeing in AE?


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Walter Soyka
Re: Color Management
on Sep 23, 2014 at 9:04:14 am

When you re-import the render back into Ae, what profile is assigned under the Color Management tab of its footage interpretation?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Harry Brown
Re: Color Management
on Sep 23, 2014 at 7:26:48 pm

The rendered re-imported footage reads as sRBG61966-2.1

Same as original.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Color Management
on Sep 23, 2014 at 8:47:27 pm

[Harry Brown] "The rendered re-imported footage reads as sRBG61966-2.1"

If your working space is Rec. 709 and you are outputting to Rec. 709, then you should re-interpret that footage as Rec. 709.

However, the difference between sRGB and Rec. 709 is not huge and I wouldn't expect to see the big variation in color that you are seeing. Can you post some screenshots showing all of the various color management selections you have made?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Harry Brown
Re: Color Management
on Sep 23, 2014 at 9:21:22 pm
Last Edited By Harry Brown on Sep 23, 2014 at 9:42:49 pm

Well, it seems that no matter which settings I select, I always get an image with a heavy teal tint.

Settings
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7-_Le3rDDQzdzA3Zkxfbkc5d3M/edit?usp=shari...

Correct Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7-_Le3rDDQzV0JwS3BqS1F0Ums/edit?usp=shari.....

Image once exported
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7-_Le3rDDQzUXJEZ0F2VVkwb1U/edit?usp=shari.....

However I noticed this...I color grade with "Use Display Color Management" off, then I find my colors are accurate...just need to go through and remove the teal one by one. Maybe I just need to keep that setting off in the future when grading? Not sure if there are benefits to having that selected...


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Walter Soyka
Re: Color Management
on Sep 24, 2014 at 8:51:20 am

[Harry Brown] "However I noticed this...I color grade with "Use Display Color Management" off, then I find my colors are accurate...just need to go through and remove the teal one by one. Maybe I just need to keep that setting off in the future when grading? Not sure if there are benefits to having that selected..."

"Use Display Color Management" tells After Effects to transform the colors from your working space to the monitor's profile (for display only). This is the thing that lets you see accurate color on your monitor. With this feature off, Ae will send unadjusted Rec. 709 values to your monitor (because that's what you set your working space to), so the color will only be correct where your monitor happens to match Rec. 709.

However, this notion of accuracy requires you to have profiled your monitor. If you have not done this (I use an xRite i1 Display Pro), then you are grading blind.

Have you profiled your monitor? If not, what profile do you have assigned to it?

What is strangest to me is that even if the color is wrong, it should be consistently wrong. Can you reduce your project to the single shot you've shown here, collect files, and post it? I'll take a look.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Harry Brown
Re: Color Management
on Sep 24, 2014 at 6:10:35 pm

Which files would you like, Walter, the exports? What information would you like me to include in the single shot?

The computer I am using is a Dell mobile workstation. Ideally, yes, it would probably be better to have a separate monitor. I have graded a few other projects on this machine, but this is my first with After Effects. Previously Premiere and DaVinci Resolve.

Maybe I haven't done a good job explaining, my apologies. But I do feel the color differences have been consistent. No matter which color effect I adjust, there is a difference between the export and "Use Display". But this teal look, is from a LUT.

Last night, I said the heck with it, I adjusted the hue and was able to create and export an image I liked. I graded with "Use Display" off. But I guess the question is, how will it look on other devices when being viewed from the web. Will they be accurate or way off?

I feel that the problem is more what I'm doing, rather than After Effects. This seems similar to when I first filmed with RAW...you can make adjustments to the image when shooting, but often if you don't export the adjusted profile, your colors are way off, being a neutral image.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Color Management
on Sep 26, 2014 at 11:21:19 am

Hi there, Harry. Sorry I've been slow to respond; I have been swamped at work.

I think I could be most helpful to you seeing a reduced project that includes a reduced AEP with a single short shot just as you've been working with it, the footage for that shot, and your output of that shot.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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