FORUMS: list search recent posts

Is this practical?

COW Forums : SAN - Storage Area Networks

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Barry Bishop
Is this practical?
on Nov 19, 2014 at 11:36:24 pm

How practical is this setup?

Setting up a mac mini server
connect the Mini via Thunderbolt to a Areca
from the mac mini a thunderbolt to 10gig box
10g Box connected to a 10gig hub/switch
10g from switch/hub running to the two more 10g adapters that go to thunderbolt adapters that are plugged into their respected computers.

Apparently the Areca can do 1000MB a second, what are the theoretical speeds I would be looking at with this setup?

My Boss just wants to see the files I work on and help edit if I need some help. Files are 4k files at +700Mbit/s

Thanks again.

Barry
Associate Web Producer/ Video Editor


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Is this practical?
on Nov 20, 2014 at 1:16:49 am

yes, this works. Do you know how to configure a system like this ?
I guess you should go out, and buy all these parts, and see if it works. If it doesn't work, write back. We are here. And say "hi" to your boss from me.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

Barry Bishop
Re: Is this practical?
on Nov 20, 2014 at 9:19:25 pm

Thanks Bob. I told my Boss you said hello, and then gave him some background on who the infamous Bob Zelin is. That all being said, thank you for your response. I don't know how to put this together, but I will leave it in the hands of our IT department. If things don't work as I think they should I will come back and post. I work for a tech company, not a production studio, hence my scoping out parts and equipment. That being said I have a few brand questions: (I also get the impression that maybe its not ethical for me to ask hey whats the best...and its probably better for me to just suggest a few brands I have been looking at...I could totally be overthinking this..if so I apologize upfront.)

is there one 10g hub/switch thats "more reliable then others" or a brand that is favorable as well as when it comes to thunderbolt to 10g?

I see Promise and Sonnet Atto and thunder link...is there another brand that I may be missing that I should be looking at as well?


I am asking because I need to do the leg work and say "buy this."
Also one last question, as far as Hard Drives, which drives tend to be more reliable as far as your concerned.

Should I stay away from SSD's are green drives not good and tend to die quickly....seagate western digital.

I realize you get paid for consultations and this is your bread and butter, and if you feel your giving away too much information, I will accept that, but I would be happy to hear any thoughts or concerns around this "build" i have put together on paper.

Barry
Associate Web Producer/ Video Editor


Return to posts index


Bob Zelin
Re: Is this practical?
on Nov 21, 2014 at 12:58:40 pm

If you work for a tech company, with all those smart IT tech guys, shouldn't they know what the correct switches are for this type of application ? Shouldn't they know what the reliable brands of hard drives are ?

The brands you mentioned - Promise, Sonnet, and ATTO are all excellent. I use all of them all the time. There are other brands too, and LOOK - they all advertise right here on Creative Cow, and even have their own forums. Of course, you can purchase a system that already works, but I guess that your tech company wants to save some money. I bet those IT guys that setup servers can do a good job of building a system themselves, with products from Promise, Sonnet, ATTO, and the other companies that you see advertise right here on Creative Cow.

It's kind of a shame that your tech company is relying on you - a creative producer and video editor, to pick the "tech" part of this project, as if they have computer guys on staff, they should know this stuff, and they should take the responsibility. It would be a shame for you to say "hey I think we should get these parts", only to have the IT department ultimately say "boy, that guy Barry sure screwed up, none of this works". It's THEIR responsibility !
However, you can pick one of the wonderful brands you see discussed right here on Creative Cow, which I can assure you ALL work, and you will be a hero. Then your boss might even say "Boy, Barry not only picked a great system, but made me realize, why the heck to I even have these tech guys working here, when Barry can do it all, and I can just sub out all the complex stuff that I need to get done".

Bottom line, look at the ads here - look at who participates on these forums, look at who has their own user forum, and CALL these companies. They have working solutions. You will get a working system. And you (and your boss) will be able to be very productive with a nice shared storage system for all your shows.


Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

Barry Bishop
Re: Is this practical?
on Nov 21, 2014 at 5:51:23 pm
Last Edited By Barry Bishop on Nov 21, 2014 at 6:57:49 pm

I understand what your saying in regards to IT building this out for me. I will make some phone calls today in regards to equipment. The reason I'm doing the work is because IT is working on a huge project, and my boss just asked out of no where and wanted it setup by Christmas. It approached me after the call went out for a system and said send me the specs and we will look it over and make some suggestions. Once we get everything IT will set it all up.

With my setup what kind of speed should I be expecting?
Would it be safe to assume that I should expect at least 1000MB/sec over the network if all the drives are filled?

*EDIT*
I just read on your website a macpro with a 10g nic can achieve 600MB/s....so that is essentially what I can expect as long as no more than two people are pegging the system.

Barry
Associate Web Producer/ Video Editor


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Is this practical?
on Nov 21, 2014 at 10:52:46 pm

with 10GbE, today you get crazy speeds. With boxes like the SanLink2 (if they are setup correctly), you can get 900 MB/sec to a cylinder Mac Pro.

ps - you will have a better chance of setting it up, than your IT department. You are more open minded, and are willing to listen to instructions. The IT guys that "know everything" always fail.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index


Neil Sadwelkar
Re: Is this practical?
on Nov 25, 2014 at 1:54:53 pm

Also, to add to what Bob posted, my experience with 'general IT guys', meaning honest hard-working gals/guys who manage big iron servers and switches that keep servers, and other such stuff running, don't necessarily 'get' the needs of video/audio file requirements.

Nearly anyone can make a GigE shared storage system with 600 MB/sec throughput capability, with a 'on paper' bandwidth of 80 MB/sec per client.
But making FCP or Avid run without dropping frames or losing sync is often a challenge. Video needs 24 (or 25 or 29.97) complete frames per sec and every second. No more and no less. A short burst of 20 GB followed by 'silence' breaks the video stream.

Sound has even lower requirements, but each frame of picture needs accompanying sound at exactly that time and consistently.

Also, when the editor hits 'Play' both picture and sound have to instantly start playing. Even a short 300 msec delay can be irritating. So also when the editor hits 'pause'.

All this appears simple and straightforward, but I've seen many such ('IT-assembled') shared storage systems some even costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, with specs of 1000 MB/sec and over, completely break down into a stutter and stammer when three editors hit play even on a DNxHD36 timeline.

Just a general observation.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


Return to posts index

Simon Blackledge
Re: Is this practical?
on Nov 28, 2014 at 12:45:18 pm
Last Edited By Simon Blackledge on Nov 28, 2014 at 12:45:29 pm

There will be a delay initially as the Areca gets unto speed.

s



Return to posts index

Barry Bishop
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 1, 2014 at 10:23:58 pm
Last Edited By Barry Bishop on Dec 1, 2014 at 11:13:42 pm

Got the blessing from IT and my Boss and am about to start purchasing. Few questions...

1) Is it better to fill all 8 bays with 1TB HD or purchase 4 2TB drives?

2) The Areca Material shows as:
The ARC-8050T2 pushes speed to 20 Gb/s and enables
but it also states:
The ARC-8050T2 is a complete 6 Gb/s SAS 8-bay Thunderbolt 2 box with RAID control
Am I going to get 20Gb/s or am I getting 6 Gb/s with my setup?

3) Will this switch be fine for my setup: NETGEAR XS708E 10GbE switch ?
I read on amazon that Jumbo frames are automatically enabled and I can't turn them off. I have heard Jumbo frames are a no no for this type of work.


-Barry

Thanks again for everyones help. I really appreciate it.


Return to posts index



Bob Zelin
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 1, 2014 at 11:57:22 pm

why would you buy 1TB drives when you can buy 3TB, 4TB and 6TB drives today for so cheap ?

The XS708E only has Windows PC management, so you can't use your Mac's to do the setup on the switch.

Whoever told you that Jumbo frames are a no no is an idiot, and should be shot dead, hung, and fired (not in that order).

20Gb/sec is the thruput of Thunderbolt 2. You have a 6Gb system - this means that your drives and your backplane are 6G. Your thunderbolt thruput is 20Gb/sec. This will result in a theortical bandwidth of 1375MB/sec, but in real life, you will get about 900 MB/sec after you create the RAID group.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

Barry Bishop
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 2, 2014 at 12:48:28 am
Last Edited By Barry Bishop on Dec 2, 2014 at 12:48:58 am

One last question..if I may regarding this setup. If I'm hitting a 6gb would it be of little benefit then to get the TB2 version of the Aerca? I could save some cash and get the Silver TB1 version and use the money saved towards putting more ram in the mac mini...or splurging on bigger Hard Drives. Also Im sorry for being a pest :) and I welcome any input.

OK Jumbo frames are not bad....good to know. I can tset up the Switch, plenty of dells around. This is like early christmas for me :)

Barry
Video Editor/Graphic Designer


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 3, 2014 at 12:53:52 am

calling you now
Bob

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index


Barry Bishop
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 11, 2014 at 9:23:46 am

Ok so I have a question regarding Xsan. Do all my thunderbolt boxes to 10gbe have to be thunderbolt to fibre in order to use Xsan? Can I get away with the server outputting to thunderbolt converter to fibre that's plugged into the fibre port on the switch? If this doesn't work am I stuck going the isci route since I'm looking to having a San setup. I tried global iscsi something or other trial and it worked since Xsan was greyed out on the OS X server. I'm happy everything is working :) thanks for everyone's help!

Barry
Video Editor/Graphic Designer


Return to posts index

Nat Jencks
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 3, 2014 at 4:09:30 pm

Bob and other knowledgeable folks:

Are the two Thunderbolt 2 ports on the new Mac Mini's on separate buses? Does it matter? It seems like for the new Mac Mini to act as an efficient server you would want the thunderbolt 2 storage (Areca or Pegasus) and your 10G ethernet adapter (Promise Sanlink2) on separate Buses.

If these Thunderbolt 2 ports are on the same bus, can one get better performance by bumping up the the entry level trash can?

best-
-Nat

Proposed setup:
new Mac mini OR entry level trashcan
Sanlink2 thunderbolt to 10G adapters
Netgear 10G switch
Areca or Promise thunderbolt2 storage.


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 4, 2014 at 11:38:16 pm

Nat - you have been asking questions like this for years now.
Have you bought anything yet ? You should buy the equipment list
that you have just specified and see what happens. Yes, you get better performance with the trashcan.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index


Nat Jencks
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 5, 2014 at 12:03:06 am

Ha, always a pleasure Bob, as I think you may actually know, I've use all sorts of shared storage over the last 10-15 years... Unity, Commandsoft, Facilis, etc, you name it. All told my guess is that I've been responsible for the purchase of a few hundred thousand dollars of shared storage at various facilities, so I've done my part supporting post production shared storage makers and integrators.

However at the moment I just want to know if the new Mac Mini has two Thunderbolt 2 buses :)

Thanks
-Nat


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 5, 2014 at 9:17:17 pm

nope !
But for a small workgroup, it works just fine.

Bob

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

Nat Jencks
Re: Is this practical?
on Dec 5, 2014 at 11:12:23 pm

thanks Bob!


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2019 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]