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Simon Blackledge
NFS sharing fcpx projects
on May 30, 2014 at 8:32:32 am

So I did a test for this NFS setup to see if it suits.

On initial connection it asks for no password?

Also when I drop a file in over finder there's a 10-20 second delay before the copy starts?

Fcpx seems fine although I have a timeline that renders over and over with background render. Seems it's trying to write at end but can't

Tried a slomo and that wrote fine :/maybe just that timeline.

Most concerning is I've had files literally disappear from the server. There in the backup server in /archived so they have deffo been deleted... :/

Seems to happen when quit fcpx. Oprn up next day and sometimes .. Not always something is missing.. Audio or quick times. Nothing is hard imported all leave in place.

S


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Simon Blackledge
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on May 30, 2014 at 1:22:37 pm

Oh plus when exporting to the NFS mount FCP-X leaves a folder behind post completion :-/


Name = (A Document Being Saved By StompUtil)

S



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Neil Smith
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on May 30, 2014 at 2:36:25 pm

Simon,

I think you'll find that FCP X is only architected to work in an Xsan FC SAN environment ... doesn't use NFS or even SMB2 over a shared storage environment.

Worth double checking with Apple Support but that might be your issue.

Neil

Neil Smith
CEO
LumaForge LLC
high performance workflow
323-850-3550
http://www.lumaforge.com


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Simon Blackledge
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on May 30, 2014 at 4:30:25 pm
Last Edited By Simon Blackledge on May 30, 2014 at 4:31:40 pm

Hey Neil

The NFS workaround does indeed work.

The rendering over and over is a bug in FCP-X when using Fill instead of non or FIT in Spatial Conform with some codecs or media external to FCPX library.

the folder left behind with compressor ( internal share in FCP-X) appears to also be a bug.

Local media exported to the NFS share ( so fcp-x isn't using anything on the NFS mounted volume) still leaves behind the *tmp folder.

I'm putting the disappearing files down to use error... !


Nice 4K demo at NAB btw.. caught the vids online.

S



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Bob Zelin
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on May 31, 2014 at 5:31:03 pm

Hi Simon -
as you may know, this forum's John Davidson from Magic Feather is using NFS with FCP-X every day.

And yes - no permissions. It just connects.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Simon Blackledge
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jun 4, 2014 at 6:02:59 pm

Try this

Mount the server fcpx folder as NFS

open FCPx

Open whatever projects you want.

Dont quit fcp-x

Mount the sever folder over afp

eject the NFS mounted one

go back to editing in FCPX - export etc without any of the NFS hidden folder rubbish showing up.

FCPX only flags the need for the project to be on a SAN when opening.. once open it can be mounted any way you wish...

s



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Bob Zelin
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jun 5, 2014 at 12:40:42 am

I will try this. If this is true, then it is REALLY clear to me that Apple is intentionally making it difficult to allow for shared storage on a network that they do not manufacture (because you should be using XSAN or iCloud as your storage for FCP-X).

Simon, you always come up with brilliant things.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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John Davidson
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jun 5, 2014 at 1:34:07 am

Hey guys - stepping out of paternity leave to comment. Very interesting about the NFS mount - also saw the FCP.co discussion about it as well. For us, we just have more problems using NFS than solutions so we have kept to sparse disk images. It's not elegant, but it's been rock solid using Sparse over AFP for 2 years now.

Our NFS issues were that it kept crashing, freezing, and beach balling after a while with NFS. Add to that that adobe doesn't render to NFS mounts (it freezes AE when you try) we just gave up and decided to stick with what works for now.

Interesting to see this develop though - maybe we'll try again one of these days.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Bob Zelin
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jun 5, 2014 at 12:05:51 pm

Hi John -
can you post the link on fcp.co.uk that discusses this ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Steve Modica
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jun 8, 2014 at 12:02:20 pm

NFS was working great with 10.1, and then they released 10.1.1 and broke the locking.

With 10.1, you could enable locallocks on the clients and they would adhere to the lock files in the Library directories. The only possible concern would be if two clients tried to create lock files at the exact same moment.

With 10.1.1, apple started using NFS locking (using rpc.lockd) and that messed things up.
First, if you use locallocks, since the client can't see the files are locked on the server anymore, it just blows through them and overwrites the locks. So clients will corrupt Libraries if they simultaneously access.
(You fix this by removing "locallocks" which makes sure they heed the locking)

Second, they seem to have broken things when a second client tries to access a locked Library. Now, the second client hangs. It has to be killed. Nothing gets broken in the library, but the hang on the client isn't very nice.

I'm not sure if this is our implementation of rpc.lockd or what. I'd like to know if anyone has this working.
Our lockd is pretty standard.

Steve

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications


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Neil Smith
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jun 8, 2014 at 4:38:52 pm

[Steve Modica] "NFS was working great with 10.1, and then they released 10.1.1 and broke the locking.

With 10.1, you could enable locallocks on the clients and they would adhere to the lock files in the Library directories. The only possible concern would be if two clients tried to create lock files at the exact same moment.

With 10.1.1, apple started using NFS locking (using rpc.lockd) and that messed things up.
First, if you use locallocks, since the client can't see the files are locked on the server anymore, it just blows through them and overwrites the locks. So clients will corrupt Libraries if they simultaneously access.
(You fix this by removing "locallocks" which makes sure they heed the locking)

Second, they seem to have broken things when a second client tries to access a locked Library. Now, the second client hangs. It has to be killed. Nothing gets broken in the library, but the hang on the client isn't very nice.

I'm not sure if this is our implementation of rpc.lockd or what. I'd like to know if anyone has this working.
Our lockd is pretty standard.

Steve

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications"


That's what I was trying to hint at in my earlier posting ... the chaps from Cupertino may have a different idea on how they want to deploy and manage shared storage under FCP X 10.1 ... highly suggest that peeps talk to Apple Support directly before they get too far down un-supported topologies.

Neil

Neil Smith
CEO
LumaForge LLC
high performance workflow
323-850-3550
http://www.lumaforge.com


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Bob Zelin
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jun 9, 2014 at 2:46:06 pm

Hi Neil -
there is only one thing that is very clear. Almost NO ONE wants to use or implement an Apple XSAN system - period. So there are countless people out there (all the companies that you see advertise here on Creative Cow) that have alternate ways to get FCP-X to work in a shared storage environment. SO - why are people so unwilling to implement XSAN ? Simple - it costs too much money.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Neil Smith
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jun 9, 2014 at 3:22:34 pm

I agree, Bob .. we're testing NFS and SMB shares over 10GbaseT as we speak ... unfortunately both Apple and Microsoft have taken it upon themselves to make multi-vendor integration between Win 7 and OSX as difficult as possible ... NFS runs super well under OSX but SMB2 sucks ... SMB is great under Win 7 but have you tried setting up a msft NFS share recently? ... sheer bloody madness.

The FCP X 10.1.1 Xsan constraint issue is another story .. and while, I understand why Cupertino might want to take such an approach for technical reasons, it sure as hell makes our life difficult.

Really liking ZFS as a shared storage file system ... if I recall correctly from our conversation at NAB (amazing that was already two months ago) you also favor ZFS and NFS wherever possible (I may have got that wrong, so don't quote me) ... maybe, next time you're in LA, you should come over to The Lot and we'll share notes ... we're building an Open IT PoC (Proof of Concept) demo that leverages ZFS/BSD and 10GbaseT plus Thunderbolt networking ... in this day and age, you'd think it'd be easy to connect a Mac to a PC and share some video files in a safe and reliable way without spending an arm and a leg ... you'd think.

As well as getting away from Xsan there is another company who also is positioning their proprietary file system as the integration glue for multi platform shared storage in the M&E space (has a lot in common with Xsan - cough, cough) ... very robust approach for sure, but again cost is an issue with a FC topology.

At the Creative Storage Conference in Culver City on June 24th we'll be demoing our Open IT ZFS based approach ... if you're going to attend the Conference be sure to stop by our Booth # 7:

http://www.creativestorage.org/2014Agenda.htm

I'll also be giving a 10 minute overview in the opening panel in the morning session ... plus, they'll be plenty of heavy-iron vendors will also be present if folks have money to burn ;-)

Hope to see you soon, matey ... keep up the good work.

Cheers,
Neil

Neil Smith
CEO
LumaForge LLC
high performance workflow
323-850-3550
http://www.lumaforge.com


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Steve Modica
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jun 20, 2014 at 10:41:24 pm

I miss Xsan. When a customer would call you with a $60,000 quote in their hand, and you could give them something comparable for $25,000, that was a very pleasant conversation :)

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications


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Neil Smith
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jul 15, 2014 at 10:02:53 pm
Last Edited By Neil Smith on Jul 15, 2014 at 10:10:16 pm

Steve,

I heard an interesting theory a couple of weeks which I don't know whether to believe or not - appreciate your thoughts on the matter:

1) there's some kind of SEC rule (don't quote me on this - needs verifying by someone who knows for sure) that publicly traded companies like Apple Inc. have to go through a four year process if they want to drop support on a product.

2) part of that process is that they have to stop selling the product for four years

3) technically, Apple no longer sell Xsan as a separate product ... its included for "free" in OSX.

4) they stopped charging for Xsan a couple of years ago.

5) my conspiracy theory friend then postulated that in two years time Apple will drop Xsan from the OS as well.

6) a year after that they can also formally drop support for the product.

Have you heard of such a process and what do you think of the 'theory'?

Of course, it would be helpful if Cupertino would give us some clear roadmap of Xsan developments but they won't of course ... but be aware that though Apple don't ever comment on public forums they do monitor the relevant ones all the time and your comments will be duly noted in the 'big black book' ... I'm already in the book of naughty boys :-(

The question kinda goes to the nub of how serious Apple is about the Pro market ... think of what they did to 'Shake' and FCP 7 ... if they're going to stick with HFS+ (now an antiquated file system) and drop Xsan (essentially CVFS from MountainGate and now owned by Quantum) what are their intentions with shared storage and Thunderbolt networking?

Neil

Neil Smith
CEO
LumaForge LLC
Advanced Digital Workflow
323-850-3550
http://www.lumaforge.com


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Steve Modica
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jul 16, 2014 at 7:03:23 pm

I couldn't find anything online talking about SEC requirements for dropping a product.
I'm sure there are contractual obligations that some companies have for things like this (perhaps apple has support contracts with large customers that need to be met), but other than that, I doubt this is true.

I think Apple is doing the same thing I do when I have a product that I don't "want" to support. Make it free. :)

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications


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Scott Goddard
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jul 15, 2014 at 4:55:19 pm

Is anyone successfully using NSF and Adobe Premiere?

Scott Goddard

Neo Verite Limited
http://neoverite.com


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Lucas Werneck
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Apr 8, 2015 at 7:19:49 am

John, did you still have NFS issues?
I've made a previous test with NFS and didn't had a problem.
What issues normally appeared?
Regards,


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Philip Wels
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jul 8, 2015 at 2:52:42 pm

Hey all.

So, if you connect to a server over SMB with DAVE (by Thursby Software) installed, you can save FCPX projects to network shares just fine, without any issue. It seems to me there should be *some* way of tricking FCPX into thinking it's connected to the right kind of sever... we just let our DAVE support contract lapse, so we're looking at other options, but it seems like DAVE just might be the easiest.


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Simon Blackledge
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jul 8, 2015 at 7:31:08 pm

Interesting - So what are Thursby Software doing differently ?



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Elvin Jasarevic
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Jul 25, 2015 at 5:00:34 pm

DDP is ethernet based SAN and FCPX works like charm. No need to pay any license. Dave is good for Avid sharing, but you get that for free with DDP anyway..

We have clients like Mono29 with 40FCPX users and total 300 clients connected to same system.
Check the FB link


elvin@ddp.jp
http://www.ddpsan.asia


https://www.facebook.com/elvin.jasarevic.9/media_set?set=a.718155618219864....


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Steve Chandler
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Dec 10, 2015 at 3:23:43 pm

Hey all - how is NFS performance these days? From very limited experience and some research, I've been under the impression that NFS performance was pretty crappy on OS X by default. Obviously the vendors are doing proprietary stuff to speed this up. Does anyone know what sort of techniques can be used to get better speeds natively on OS X?

I'd like to experiment with that on our shared storage system, but mostly as a fun curiosity - don't want to go down that road if it's not worth it.


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John Davidson
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Dec 10, 2015 at 5:54:28 pm

I gave up on that a long time ago and we use SMB only now. NFS has the fun feature (or at least it did) of locking up after effects renders that go to the server.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Simon Blackledge
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Dec 10, 2015 at 6:00:31 pm

Same - SMB only - AFP stutters when using thunderbolt kit.

want to share fcp-x projects ?

set to leave files in place (on server)
set Cache to a shared out cache folder on server.

Set location of library (which should be small now) to be dropbox and share that folder between edit suites.

Also point backups to dedicated backup folder also shared on dropbox

s



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Lucas Werneck
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Dec 10, 2015 at 6:15:42 pm

Whats the problem of using NFS for FCPX?
I've been using and it's ok. Some problems appeared on Yosemite has some problems with NFS but it appears to be ok on El Capitan.
The SMB2 on El Capitan also appears to be even better then everything else but FCPX still needs SAN or NFS for libraries. Which in my opinion is VERY strange.
Regards,


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Bob Zelin
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Dec 27, 2015 at 6:10:51 pm

strange Lucas ? It's very simple - Apple does not want you to purchase a shared storage system - they want you to use iCloud (which of course is ridiculous). Apple had File Sharing working wonderfully with FCP7 with both SMB and AFP, and now they intentionally don't want it to work - it's that simple. They can't disable NFS, because its native to the Darwin Kernal, so wonderful people like Bresink make simple utilities to enable NFS for us for this application. For those that say "oh, Apple will fix that soon" - they are never going to fix it. They WANT it to be this way. It would require nothing for them to allow library sharing over SMB3 or AFP.

Apple promotes products that work with Apple products, and not companies that compete against them.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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John Davidson
Re: NFS sharing fcpx projects
on Dec 28, 2015 at 1:29:59 am

If that's the case, then there's probably a way to hack the application to enable SMB Library Mounting. Sparse DMG's were one solution at the time (and technically still are) but I found better performance from the library being local, FWIW.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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