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is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?

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Luke Ogden
is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 24, 2013 at 2:09:52 pm

I'm try to see if there is a way I can make my current media storage drive (Promise thunderbolt R4) accessible by more than one user.

Ideally it would be available to about four users simultaneously, and wouldn't require the purchase of to much extra paraphernalia.

We edit almost exclusively in Adobe Premiere and have thunderbolt enabled desktops and laptops ready to use. Most of the material we edit is HD content, occasionally we edit multi-cam and higher resolution content.

Thanks

Luke


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Eric Hansen
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 24, 2013 at 4:25:48 pm

sure. get a Mac Mini, a Small Tree Thundernet box with four 1GbE ports and share them to your workstations. for a bit more money, you could instead get a 10GbE Thundernet box and a 10GbE switch from Netgear.

keep in mind that four 1GbE connections (or a 10GbE connection) to an R4 will push it to its limits, so i wouldn't expect enough bandwidth for 4 concurrent editors, especially multi-cam. something like an Areca 8050 with 8 drives would be much better. but if you're asking if it's possible, the answer is yes. is it ideal and reliable, no.

e

Eric Hansen
Production Workflow Designer / Consultant / Colorist / DIT
http://www.erichansen.tv


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Bob Zelin
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 24, 2013 at 6:27:38 pm

as Eric said, this will work, but you will get limited performance with only a 4 bay.

If you need help, just contact me.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Jason Silzle
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 24, 2013 at 7:30:00 pm

As both Eric and Bob Said, limited throughput but we are doing something very similar to this and it is working for us.


Our components:

- MacMini Server 2.3ghz 4 Core i7 and i put 16GB of ram in it.
- Areca Thunder Raid 8050 with 24TB (8 3TB Hitachi Drives)
- SMALL TREE 6 port Thunderbolt Nic (Card/Chassis Combo)
- Studio Network Solutions "XTarget" Server and then iSanMP Clients

I would really recomend something like SNS Xtarget and iSanMP so you can hand out read/write limits to different vols or users. I also wouldn't try to load up 6 boxes direct connect at te same time (via the Small Tree 6 NIC) but we chose 6 ports over 4 ports so we could simply have different stations at different times setup.

Thank you,

Jason Silzle
http://www.dovedigitalmedia.com
Owner/Founder
Dove Digital Media


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Bob Zelin
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 24, 2013 at 8:57:51 pm

Jason - are you using FCP 7 or Adobe Premiere ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Tyler Henry
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 25, 2013 at 6:59:16 pm

Hi -
I was wondering about configuring a similar setup and just stumbled onto this thread.
We have 4 editing stations, though only 2-3 are in use at a time.
- Mac Pro 2010
- iMac 2011
- iMac 2013
- MacBook Pro 2013

All are running FCP 7, editing multicam (4-track) projects in a mixture of XDCAM EX 35MBps and ProRes 422 HQ. Right now we just use sneakernet for project sharing. We may also switch to Premiere soon.

The MacMini Server/Areca Thunderbolt Raid/Small Tree ThunderNet/SNS iSanMP solution is definitely intriguing.
It seems that it might make more sense to get an all-in-one solution like the ProMax Platform Studio.
http://www.promax.com/s-226-platform-studio-features.aspx
I'm not sure what the price difference is though.

Are there any advantages to either system or incompatibilities with our editing setup? We're a pretty small, seasonal operation so we don't have an IT admin or even always permanent editors. We're able to get our feet wet setting something up but it needs to be pretty low-maintenance so new hires can keep it running. Something more plug-and-play would be ideal.

Thanks for your help! Your forum posts have been a huge help in the past.


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Bob Zelin
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 25, 2013 at 10:45:11 pm

the price will be the same. ProMax Platform is a wonderful Linux based solution.
The Mac Mini solution, which you DO NOT need to run SANmp with (to save money) is just Mac components. You can buy this as a turnkey solution if you like as well from Maxx Digital, or you can do it yourself. ProMax has an easy to use user interface. With the Mac Mini solution, you click on GO> Connect To Server, and you have mounted your shared volume. That's it.

My email is below if you have any further questions -
Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Josh Thomason
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 25, 2013 at 11:29:23 pm

Tyler,

Give me a call, if you would like to discuss pricing and options for the Platform Studio.

Thanks,
Josh Thomason
ProMAX Systems
949-861-2721 -direct


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Josh Thomason
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 25, 2013 at 11:33:43 pm

Bob, The Platform Studio is actually running on Windows 2012 Server, not Linux.


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Tyler Henry
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 4:45:12 pm

Thanks for the info -
Bob, is that MAXX Digital solution the Final Share 10G?
That looks surprisingly simple and we have a Mac Pro available.

What's the advantage to installing sanMP if it's not necessary? Is it only necessary for larger bandwidths?


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Bob Zelin
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 9:05:38 pm

Hi Tyler -
speak to Josh at ProMax, and then speak to me. You can decide for yourself.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Andrew Richards
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 12:51:33 pm

[Tyler Henry] "What's the advantage to installing sanMP if it's not necessary? Is it only necessary for larger bandwidths?"

SANmp is used for fibre channel storage area networks (SAN). SANmp manages volume locking so that multiple users of the same fibre channel RAID do not stomp on each others storage transactions. One user can read and write, everyone else can only read any given volume. You would not use it for Ethernet-based network-attached storage (NAS) like Final Share or Small Tree, which use protocols like AFP, SMB, or NFS to connect.

Best,
Andy


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Josh Thomason
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 4:25:34 pm

The benefit to SANmp is that volumes show up as locally attached storage to the OS, in effect there is really no difference to the OS/applications with a SANmp volume vs a local hard drive. There are a few applications where this still matters, it used to be mainly for Pro Tools users; but if you’re running Pro Tools 10 or later this won’t make any difference. It doesn’t matter for most applications (FCP 7, FCP X, Adobe, Avid, etc.). The website say’s it offers ‘SAN’ connectivity, which is true from a technical standpoint; but I don’t believe (and haven’t seen) any data showing that this is any faster than setting up a network share with the same hardware.

Keep in mind, I work at ProMAX, so I am partial to platform; that said we do offer a complete turnkey storage solution that is all in one box and very easy to manage. Price wise it will end up about the same as if you do it all yourself with a mac mini, thurnderbolt storage and all the extras you need. Here is a little demo of how it works http://www.promax.com/s-238-platform-manager-software.aspx

If you have any question please let me know.


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Steve Higdon
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jul 8, 2013 at 2:50:38 pm

[Andrew Richards] "SANmp is used for fibre channel storage area networks (SAN). SANmp manages volume locking so that multiple users of the same fibre channel RAID do not stomp on each others storage transactions. One user can read and write, everyone else can only read any given volume. You would not use it for Ethernet-based network-attached storage (NAS) like Final Share or Small Tree, which use protocols like AFP, SMB, or NFS to connect."

I'd like to set the record straight on SANmp, as Andrew's comments are not entirely correct.

SANmp is a SAN volume management software that can be used to manage not only Fibre Channel storage, but also iSCSI volumes. That's two different connectivity modes, both of which are block level. Fibre Channel can provide very high performance over optical cable. iSCSI can typically provide about 100MB/s over gigabit ethernet, and significantly higher speeds over 10GbE.

Andrew IS correct when he points out that SANmp is not required to manage NAS protocol volumes such as AFP, SMB, and NFS.


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Eric Newbauer
Re: is there a solution to turn my Promise thunderbolt RAID into a SAN/Server?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 5:37:04 pm

Hey Luke,

In fact, we created Xtarget so you could do EXACTLY what you want to do, and since it's an all-software solution you can download it and give it a whirl for free.

http://www.studionetworksolutions.com/globalsan-xtarget/features/

There's a quick demo video on that page that does a good job explaining the solution. Hit us up if you need anything!

Eric Newbauer
Studio Network Solutions
http://www.studionetworksolutions.com


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