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final share equipment question

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harauld sextus
final share equipment question
on Nov 29, 2010 at 9:51:53 am

Hi Bob,
here's a question for you.
I've already ask you about a HD, 2K solution.
thanks a lot for your help on that.
Now I'm looking at final share and I'm willing to take a step in trying this solution.
Is final share a proprietary solution only sold by Maxx Digital (EVO) or can I buy the 10Gge card from Maxx Digital then have the rest of the required equipment replace by an other brand that I can find here in China?

My bigger problem is : anything bought outside china is subject to taxes. those taxes are very high. And buying those equipment here is almost equivalent in price (taxed imported product.
Equivalent equipment built by domestic company is 30% less expensive.

Is there a way to buy this solution from you guys and adapt it to different brand?

cheers,
ox


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Bob Zelin
Re: final share equipment question
on Nov 29, 2010 at 2:41:33 pm

Is final share a proprietary solution only sold by Maxx Digital (EVO) or can I buy the 10Gge card from Maxx Digital then have the rest of the required equipment replace by an other brand that I can find here in China?

REPLY - Final Share uses generic 1Gig ethernet, not 10Gig ethernet.
Everything that Maxx Digital does, is the same thing that Apple, Rorke, SNS, Facilis, Cal Digit, Sonnet, JMR and EditShare do - they buy computer components, put them together into a working system, and sell it to you with support to make it work. Can you piece this together yourself - sure, you can build your own SAN system. Good luck. All these companies have put a LOT of research into making sure that everything works correctly, wtihout conflicts. Every disk drive, every SAS host adaptor, every enclosure works a little differently. If they don't all work in harmony together, then it won't work. AND if you don't know where all the little menus are that you have to change to make things work, then nothing is going to work, even if you buy all the right pieces. You can go out tomorrow and buy a multiport ethernet card, or 10Gig card. There are countless companies that make Level2 and Level3 managed switches. Do you know how to configure them, to make a shared storage enviorment ?


My bigger problem is : anything bought outside china is subject to taxes. those taxes are very high. And buying those equipment here is almost equivalent in price (taxed imported product.
Equivalent equipment built by domestic company is 30% less expensive.

REPLY - the equipment we use is MANUFACTURED IN CHINA. What you are describing to me is incredible. Almost everything you see here, from all the manufacturers on Creative Cow, their core components come from Taiwan, or Singapore.


Is there a way to buy this solution from you guys and adapt it to different brand?

REPLY - What you buy from "us" or anyone else that makes a shared storage product is the KNOWLEGE of how to do it. You can buy CommandSoft Fibre Jet, or SNS SanMP, or Apple XRAID, or TigerTechnology MetaSAN, and build your own shared storage network - these are just software downloads, so you don't need anything shipped to you. Final Share uses the built in software that Apple gives you with their operating system. So I am not sure of what you want "sold" to you. We know what disk drives work, we know what host adaptors work, we know what ethernet cards work. You can buy these from mail order companies. Will I tell you for free exactly how to do it. Sorry, no.

Bob Zelin



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harauld sextus
Re: final share equipment question
on Nov 29, 2010 at 5:04:59 pm

[Bob Zelin] " Final Share uses generic 1Gig ethernet, not 10Gig ethernet.
Everything that Maxx Digital does, is the same thing that Apple, Rorke, SNS, Facilis, Cal Digit, Sonnet, JMR and EditShare do - they buy computer components, put them together into a working system, and sell it to you with support to make it work. Can you piece this together yourself - sure, you can build your own SAN system. Good luck. All these companies have put a LOT of research into making sure that everything works correctly, wtihout conflicts. Every disk drive, every SAS host adaptor, every enclosure works a little differently. If they don't all work in harmony together, then it won't work. AND if you don't know where all the little menus are that you have to change to make things work, then nothing is going to work, even if you buy all the right pieces. You can go out tomorrow and buy a multiport ethernet card, or 10Gig card. There are countless companies that make Level2 and Level3 managed switches. Do you know how to configure them, to make a shared storage enviorment ?
"

I'm not an IT person, I'm not trying to be an IT man thats not my job. I'm surely not trying to put anything myself.
I buy my equipment in a shop here and so far its fine except that I can't go on their SAN solution as it is too expensive for us for now.

[Bob Zelin] "the equipment we use is MANUFACTURED IN CHINA. What you are describing to me is incredible. Almost everything you see here, from all the manufacturers on Creative Cow, their core components come from Taiwan, or Singapore.
"


Incredible? no, just that's the way it is. Stuff that are manufactured in china for exportation are not really sold in china or on an other brand and its really often an other quality.

[Bob Zelin] "What you buy from "us" or anyone else that makes a shared storage product is the KNOWLEGE of how to do it. You can buy CommandSoft Fibre Jet, or SNS SanMP, or Apple XRAID, or TigerTechnology MetaSAN, and build your own shared storage network - these are just software downloads, so you don't need anything shipped to you. Final Share uses the built in software that Apple gives you with their operating system. So I am not sure of what you want "sold" to you. We know what disk drives work, we know what host adaptors work, we know what ethernet cards work. You can buy these from mail order companies. Will I tell you for free exactly how to do it. Sorry, no. "

I'm not trying to have anyone working for free bob.
I guess what you are saying is : sorry kid you'll have to save more for a SAN solution.

thanks


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Bob Zelin
Re: final share equipment question
on Nov 29, 2010 at 11:23:27 pm

Incredible? no, just that's the way it is. Stuff that are manufactured in china for exportation are not really sold in china or on an other brand and its really often an other quality.



REPLY - I guess the above statement is what baffles me. I don't doubt what you are saying, but everything that "we" use except the ATTO R380 card is made in China. You want to find a cheaper way to do it, but where would you get the components from, if the drive arrays are made in China ? I certainly could not say that "brand x" drive arrays will work. I just don't know without trying. I can tell you that we have tried wonderful brands for stand alone storage, and some of these products fail miserably in a shared storage enviornment, even though they are super fast in a stand alone application.

Bob Zelin



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Steve Modica
Re: final share equipment question
on Dec 30, 2010 at 4:18:58 pm

Video editing is a soft realtime function. It means that substantially all of the IOs FCP issues must finish in time, or you will drop frames.
(Many things are hard realtime functions like fly by wire airplane controllers or data collection devices tracking Space Shuttle launches. I've supported those too, so Final Cut is pretty tame by comparison)

When you buy your system, you are not buying drives and cards. You are buying a complex soft realtime system and computer support. You need engineers that understand realtime, mission-critical systems so when something fails, they can fix it.

I used to analyze kernel crashes for a living. People were always asking me to teach them how to use dbg or icrash so they could do it too. Truthfully, the tools I use have nothing to do with it. If you don't understand the kernel, how is a tool going to help you? It's like listening to the radio in China if you don't understand Chinese!

So in this case, once you have your storage, you need people supporting you that understand how it works and can wade through all the little menus, OS changes, hardware errata and tuning parameters to make sure *your* realtime loads work every time.

If you buy inexpensive stuff from people that don't understand realtime, you'll basically have cheap shared storage that can't handle video.

Steve

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications


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