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Is Fibre Affordable yet?

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Todd Jaspers
Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Nov 18, 2009 at 8:00:58 pm

Hey I have been looking around and it seems that Fibre networks are coming down in price. Just wondering what we are looking at for a Fibre SAN network these days.. Something that can do sustained 2k Uncompressed on multiple work stations.

Would love to what it costs to build a fibre san now.


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Matt Geier
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Nov 18, 2009 at 8:27:00 pm

Todd,

Nice post, but I think you'll find that spending 20K+ on a set up that will support you in the way you want, will be what's expected.

Fibre Channel is still pricy after you start adding in client licenses, hardware, then redundancy for the whole thing.

4 or 5 people on an XSAN last I heard was closer to 15K by the time the configuration was done......

Now sure what FCP has for compression of 2K .....or if that's even something people do....I don't hear about compressed 2K much ...

What I do hear about, is how local attached storage and sneaker net is still the alternative to those that cannot afford a Fibre Channel SAN due to price, and due to the fact they cannot do compression ---

For those that are interested in doing compressed HD with the use of Pro Res, I would steer you toward an Ethernet based solution...

Regards,

Matt G


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Jordan Woods
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Nov 18, 2009 at 10:03:23 pm

sustained uncompressed 2k is a big expectation. How many stations do you want accessing this uncompressed 2k? To sustain 2 to 3 streams of 2k uncompressed with Active Storage you would need 2 XRAIDs. Other manufacturers will have different specifications or numbers of chassis needed to make your expectation. That being said, you will find the price will begin to vary drastically since uncompressed 2k is a very big format.


-Jordan

Senior Systems Engineer
Active Storage Labs
Los Angeles, CA


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Todd Jaspers
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Nov 19, 2009 at 5:52:19 pm

Hey thanks for the replies. I have been looking at all the options right now, and it seems networks still aren't fast for cheap. Like in the tutorials section both Bob Zelin and Walter have tutorials to networks that I could setup, but with Gigabit ethernet, you are still only looking at 100mb/s sustained MAX.

That is still too slow for DPX online. I know direct attached SAS is blowing doors in terms of speed and price, but having at least two stations being able to connect to the same storage for something 3 times as fast is what I am looking at.

Say I have a 8 or 16 drive SAS, I can get about 800 mb/s, but if I put that on a Gigabit network, I am still down to 100mb/s.

Also what about iSCSI, I have been reading about it, but it seems no other has really implemented it, and the other stuff I have read is that its really buggy and not ready for sustained data, like film and video.

thank.


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Jordan Woods
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Nov 20, 2009 at 12:47:49 am

iSCSI won't do 2k DPX uncompressed, 10gigE might not even do 2k DPX uncompressed. Currently it is either direct attached or if SAN then fibre (for that sustained data rate).

-jw


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Bob Zelin
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Nov 20, 2009 at 2:34:48 am

Todd,
the answer is NO. I just did an install ( I assisted in an install) with an Apple XSAN, all fibre channel, and the incredible help of SANtech, and Jordan Wood's Active Storage. A 16 terabyte install was 90 grand. It BLOWS THE DOORS off of my ethernet based system, and is about 9 times the price.

And you want 2K? I have only one thing to say to you - if you are doing 2K finishing work, you should be charging a lot of money (and should be able to afford a hi end fibre based system). But if I find out that you are "giving away" 2K post finishing work (because you have found a cheap 2K shared storage system), I will fly to your location, and beat you to a pulp. Hi end 2K and 4K work is EXPENSIVE, and it should remain this way - it should not become "cheapo" work, like people that work with firewire drives.

Of course, if you get to keep the money, and buy a nice house, and a a nice car - that's perfectly ok.

Bob Zelin




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Alex Desrial
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Nov 22, 2009 at 4:48:45 pm

That is still too slow for DPX online. I know direct attached SAS is blowing doors in terms of speed and price, but having at least two stations being able to connect to the same storage for something 3 times as fast is what I am looking at.

Hi Tod,


Bob is correct, uncompressed 2K in Fibre SAN is very expensive.

If you just need to hook up 2 works station for 2k work , you may consider this configuration : ATTO 8 Gb SIngle Channel HBA + 8 Gb Infortrend SF24 Dual Controller + FibreJet SAN software. The mapping is simple, one controller hold a volume. This is not cheap solution, this is still expensive. But this is the cheapest FibreSolution you may consider. No need server or FC Switch.

I did try it in my lab for such a scenario ( on SD 10 bit unc.) with infortrend A08 F. It works well , indeed.

Happy Trying

Best
Alex Desrial
MediaIntegra - Jakarta






Alex Desrial
MediaIntegra - Jakarta


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Alex Desrial
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Dec 2, 2009 at 3:28:45 pm

Great to know you Bob Erzan, I think we are on the same board ;)

Allow me to ask you a bit. What kind of disc drive ( SAS or SATA) and what raid level do you use to achieve such a performance you describe.

And did you try capturing DPX HD 1080 Uncompressed file while other works station editing 2K 1556 concurrently on the SAN ?






Alex Desrial
MediaIntegra - Jakarta


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Bob Herzan
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Dec 2, 2009 at 10:09:39 pm

Alex,

The Aurora supports both SAS and SATA 7200RPM or 15K. We Support RAID 6 on all configurations and depending on the drives used can show over 3000MBps in a single 24 drive RAID. We do support DPX File format and have many customer working in this format currently. We also have a complete interoperability lab at our office in Minneapolis and have several systems in house including Autodesk, Iridas, Scratch, Digital Vision, Avid and others. We would need to talk more about your workflow but I see no problem being able to put something together for you that will meet your needs. Take a look at our Website under the Aurora product line and let me know if you would like to talk more.



Bob Herzan
Vice President of Sales
Rorke Data Inc
952-829-0300


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Ron Amborn
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Nov 23, 2009 at 7:21:31 am
Last Edited By Ron Amborn on Mar 6, 2015 at 1:59:22 am

Todd
Please contact us and we can help you with the full spectrum from Active Storage to Some great Maxx Digital storage. We can do complete installs from the ground up anywhere in the world.

Sincerely,
Ron Amborn President
Maxx Entertainment Digital
21562 Newland Street
Huntington Beach , Ca 92646
Direct 714-374-4944
Cell 714-713-4492 Fax 714-374-3404
ron@maxxdigital.com
http://www.maxxdigital.com




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Nook Kim
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Nov 23, 2009 at 8:49:15 am

I'm looking for a solution for almost the exact setup. Two stations shared for uncomp 2K. However, I don't need more than 2 tracks of uncomp 2K. Please help.

Nook



Nook Kim
http://www.nookkim.com


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Bob Herzan
Re: Is Fibre Affordable yet?
on Dec 2, 2009 at 2:00:28 pm

Depends on what you feel is inexpensive, we developed a product and released it last year for the film industry. The product is called the Aurora and a single 24 Bay raid can support your 3 streams of 2K along with 8 channels of 8GB FC allowing you to connect all your systems directly to the Raid with out having to deploy a Switch. We have developed some turnkey SAN's for exactly what your talking about and would be happy to get a better understanding of your workflow and provide you with a quote to see if it fits your price point.

Bob Herzan
bherzan@rorke.com

Bob Herzan
Vice President of Sales
Rorke Data Inc
952-829-0300


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