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Richard Scott
multi platform shared storage.
on Aug 17, 2005 at 5:06:23 pm

We are looking for a multi platform shared storage solution. Basically, we have several HD FCP suites one SD FCP an Avid HD DS (or two) and a few other items. I was wondering if there is a shared storage solution that both systems could use. We could set up a partition that the Avid systems could use and have another one that the Apple systems could use. Any suggestions? We would like to be able to digitize a project in one room and edit in an other. I understand that we can't share media between FCP and Avid, we just want the Avids to be able to share media between themselves and the FCPs to do the same.

Also, if we are to edit in HD can we operate multiple systems off the same SAN or would we be better off sharing data that way and editing off of local storage in each room?

Thanks in advance.

Rich


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Shane Sokolosky
Re: multi platform shared storage.
on Aug 18, 2005 at 11:20:59 pm

Hey Richard,
I left you a message, Are your AVIDs MAC based or PC?

Shane Sokolosky

SAN Product Manager
ProMax Systems inc.
16 Technology Dr. Ste.106
Irvine, CA. 92618

Office (949) 727-3977 x108
Toll free (877) 776-6292
Fax (949) 727-7002
Website-http://www.Promax.com
shane.sokolosky@promax.com


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Shane Sokolosky
Re: multi platform shared storage.
on Aug 18, 2005 at 11:52:46 pm

Oh Nevermind, Nitris = PC,

The problem with using something like SANmp to do this (they do support AVID sharing) is that HD uncompressed requires a lot of bandwidth to capture and lay off to tape, usually this is done by striping across multiple RAID sets or LUNS. The problem is then the multi-platform part, Windows XP can not recognize a striped RAID set created in OS X and visa versa, So a solution would be to get one big LUN (or RAID set) that can capture HD uncompressed. This wouldn't be a problem but Windows XP has a 2TB lun limit, so the volume can't be much bigger than that.

The problem using XSAN or ADIC Stornext filesystem 2.6 or FX for somthing like this is that the FInal Cut Pro systems are going to be ok, but the AVID DS Nitris systems are not really going to benifit at all they could store their projects on the same drives but when it comes to sharing there's not much to offer.

Obviously the AVID systems were made to be used with Unity, and the Final Cut Pro systems were not designed around any kind of sharing enviornmet (the reason most of them tend to work), put the two together and you'll have to sacrifice funtionally of one or the other and workarond getting the files to be shared.

With HD uncompressed
AVID = Unity
FCP = Many options

There are some people using XSAN with AVIDs (not sure about uncompressed HD, and lots of workarounds of course) for example check out this article where they're using LAN Share + XSAN http://www.xsanity.com/article.php/20050413152042711

I guess It comes down to what you really need the SAN to be able to do between both systems.

Hope this helps shine some light on the subject.

Shane Sokolosky

SAN Product Manager
ProMax Systems inc.
16 Technology Dr. Ste.106
Irvine, CA. 92618

Office (949) 727-3977 x108
Toll free (877) 776-6292
Fax (949) 727-7002
Website-http://www.Promax.com
shane.sokolosky@promax.com


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James McKenna
Re: multi platform shared storage.
on Aug 29, 2005 at 3:17:28 pm

Rich,

There are multi-platorm SAN solutions out there with the ability to perform in HD environments. The Facilis TerraBlock is one of them, and can do exactly what you've described. Virtual volumes can be created and formatted in either Mac or Windows native filesystem, and HD material can be shared between multiple stations.

There are limitations with any SAN, as the math will always catch up to you, but we do pretty well supporting 4 streams of uncompressed 8bit HD on a single server, or three streams of 10bit. We can support a dual-stream uncompressed HD client, as well as other SD clients on the same server. We are compatible with Nitris, and FCP.

Take a look - http://www.facilistech.com

Let me know if you have any questions.

Jim McKenna
Facilis Tech
james@facilis.net


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Shane Sokolosky
Re: multi platform shared storage.
on Aug 29, 2005 at 3:22:51 pm

[James McKenna] "We are compatible with Nitris, and FCP. "

To what degree are you guys compatible with Nitris? Can you open the same project file at the same time like unity? or just media? what about bins? I'd be curious.




Shane Sokolosky

SAN Product Manager
ProMax Systems inc.
16 Technology Dr. Ste.106
Irvine, CA. 92618

Office (949) 727-3977 x108
Toll free (877) 776-6292
Fax (949) 727-7002
Website-http://www.Promax.com
shane.sokolosky@promax.com


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James McKenna
Re: multi platform shared storage.
on Aug 29, 2005 at 4:10:19 pm

Hi Shane,

We have several installations where multiple Nitris stations share media as if it were local to each station. Media and project indexer are most happy with that setup. The DS project files on the other hand were never meant to be shared. Until recently one had to archive and restore a project onto another platform in order to even access the same video. Now it's more of a close on on station, open on the other with a couple tweaks to reset storage configs.

Of course, Avid project sharing in the true sense is done within the MC app, so no one can share projects in an ideal sense like Avid can with Unity. Even Avid can't share projects in an ideal sense, because the timeline (EDL, sequence, name your term), can't be shared or even synched up after changes. In our solution, you will need to copy bins between stations. It hasn't been a real downer for us, since most of out installs are finishing stations and HD where you're not typically collaborating by the hour. Even when you do, it's easy enough to pass someone a cut.

The real point here is the price performance. Avid may have you dedicate three ZX (or some amount of MediaArray II) enclosures for HD uncompressed. That's not shared HD uncompressed, that's just one HD client with the privilege of connecting to Unity and playing HD. We can do the same with 12 drives, or share HD with 24.

Jim McKenna
Facilis Tech


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blambore
Re: multi platform shared storage.
on Aug 29, 2005 at 4:09:33 pm

Richard,

Our MetaSAN software will allow you to share files and content between Mac/FCP and Avid/PC. It will also offer you with the ability to have multiple Avid users share media files.

Because MetaSAN is hardware agnostic (it runs on top of any functional SAN infrastructure), your challenge will be to find a storage and switch configuration capable of sustaining the HD bandwidth you need. Remember that you can't just add up numbers when creating a SAN. The simultaneous nature of concurrent accesses can have a huge impact on the resulting performance. For instance, on some storage, your effective bandwitdh may be cut in half because multiple machines are accessing content simultaneously! You might want to look into what Huge/Ciprico (http://www.hugesystems.com), Exavio (http://www.exavio.com) and ADTX (http://www.adtx.com/us) have to offer, all good storage partners familiar with MetaSAN technology.

All the best,

Bernard Lamborelle
http://www.tiger-technology.com
tel: 514-667-2015



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