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Varicam 2700/3700

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Robin Probyn
Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 17, 2010 at 1:47:23 pm

Hi there

Varicam 3700 is about $20,000 more than 2700.. why is this.. is the 3700 worth the expense ? if so why.

Thanks


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Emre Tufekci S.O.A.
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 17, 2010 at 3:50:27 pm

In a nutshell:

2700 has variable frame rates (1-60 fps) with 720P imager. Highest resolution:

1080P 10 bit 4:2:2

3700 has limited variable frame rates (1-30) with 1080 imager. Highest resolution:

1080p 10 bit 4:4:4 with dual link HD-SDI.

2700 is generally for documentary/ENG type use, 3700 targets Episodic TV and feature film industry. Doesn't mean one cant be used for the other.

Emre Tufekci
http://www.productionpit.com



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Robin Probyn
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 17, 2010 at 3:56:13 pm

Ok Many thanks

So 2700 1080p is an upres thing like the HDX900 1080i Does the 2700 have AVC 100 also..



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Emre Tufekci S.O.A.
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 17, 2010 at 4:00:47 pm

yes and yes. 2700 goes uprez to 1080 and has AVC-I available.

Emre Tufekci
http://www.productionpit.com



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Robin Probyn
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 17, 2010 at 4:11:58 pm

Thanks again..

I have an old but working Betcam 400AP,and a still sometimes used digbeta 790 WS.. also HDX900..
Sort of wondering about the trade in that ends Sept I believe.. esp if I can trade the 400..
I read the trade in was for the 2700,and like the idea of being able to do slomo.. more than 4-4-4 etc

Still use my HDX900.. but ofcourse irs days are numbered.. have used the 3700.. nice camera but the whole down loading thing is not appealing... so far always had a data wrangler.. but doc,s wont pay for the extra body for sure.. what are your thoughts ?

And thanks again for your time..



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Emre Tufekci S.O.A.
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 17, 2010 at 11:52:08 pm

You should check with Panasonic as far as the trade ins as they will vary from region to region. I would recommend not to miss out on the offer as it makes a huge difference.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SpecialOffersForMod...

As far as the data downloading with larger cards its not as a big deal as it was. For example the 2700 has 5 slots. Each fits a card (currently at 64GB). Thats 320GB of storage. If you are doing documentaries and can use 24PN (native) at 4:2:0, 8 bit DVCPROHD that will get you 30 hours of 720P footage before you have to offload anything.

Or get you 320 minutes at 1080P at 10bit 4:2:2 using AVC-I.

There are also new tools you can use to automatically download and save your footage without a need for a laptop or second person.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?display...

The entire industry is moving towards tapeless acquisition and this probably is the best time to get in to the workflow as it has already been proven in the field (the panasonic rebate is also very sweet.) We have been using P2 for over 4 years and have had great results. Just make sure you demo the workflow and the cameras before making your final decision.

Hope this helps,
Emre

Emre Tufekci
http://www.productionpit.com



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Robin Probyn
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 18, 2010 at 1:41:39 am

Many thanks again.. lots of info.. much appreciated !

Thanks



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Jeff Regan
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 18, 2010 at 1:31:40 am

2700 is a worthwhile step above the 900 due to:

AVC-Intra 100 codec-10-bit, true progressive, native, twice as efficient as DVCPRO HD with no legacy tape format limitations.

Film-Rec gamma with up to 600% dynamic range, giving you all the latitude the sensors are capable of.

DRS 1, 2, 3, which is like Film-Rec at the top end, with expansion of shadow detail dynamically.

More ND filters.

LCD color display.

P2 means no rewinding, fast forwarding, cueing, 5 year warranty, no moving parts, virtually nothing to wear out. Meta data. 5 cards in the camera is like carrying a case of tape in the camera.

Proxy board option.

GPS option.

2-channel wireless receiver slot.

The 2700 is an amazing camera at the trade-in price, IMO. I've owned the 900, have had a 2700 for almost a year and also shoot with a 3700 regularly. The latter doesn't have the flexibility, is less light sensitive and consumers more power, and of course costs a lot more.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com


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Robin Probyn
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 18, 2010 at 1:45:31 am

Hi Jeff

Ok thanks.. yes if I could trade in the 400AP would be very good deal! if not I wonder the digibeta or the HDX900...?

I guess my only worry would be getting the 2700.. but then having people say they want only the 3700..
My work is doc,s not drama..

What are the situations where you use the 3700? that you mention..

Thanks again for your time..



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Emre Tufekci S.O.A.
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 18, 2010 at 1:57:19 am

We use the 3700 when we need a Dual Link HD-SDI to pull 4:4:4 for compositing/FX work (When we dont want to shell out to rent a Panavision Genesis or F35).

For documentary, EFP, ENG work I would only recommend the 2700. Anything more would be waste of money (IMHO). No need for the 3000 or the 3700.

Emre Tufekci
http://www.productionpit.com



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Robin Probyn
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 18, 2010 at 2:01:17 am

Ok thanks! glad to hear that!!



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Jeff Regan
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 18, 2010 at 2:50:15 am

Yes, even if not using 4:4:4 output, full raster native 1080 sensors of the 3700 can be advantageous for compositing. There was a show on Fox called Dollhouse, shot first year on 35mm, second year on 3700's and 2700's when overcranking. Looked pretty good, even with deep DOF vs. 35mm. I can't tell the difference on a 100" 1080P DLP projector/screen between the 2700 and 3700. I went to Varicamp last year and we had a setup with a 2700 and 3700, viewed on a 50" plasma, 17" LCD and 24" color critical CRT. Nobody could tell the difference, except that the 3700 was less light sensitive.

I agree that for DOCs, the 2700 is the right choice. 720/24PN is a great format for DOCs, internet and many network programming. It's kinder to talent, much more efficient work flow wise.

There's no reason why your BVW-400A wouldn't be eligible for trade-in.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com


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Robin Probyn
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 18, 2010 at 4:47:10 am

Ok thanks Jeff

Yes dont think it would really pay off to go for the 3700.. how do you handle card downloading if you dont have a wrangler along.. I would think most times I wont.. having to drag laptop and two HDD,s cables etc would be a pain.. my hope is that the downloading will gradually become the directer s /PA,s task at the end of the day.. :)

Thanks again for your advise



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Mark Hayes
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 21, 2010 at 6:19:17 am

I have been thinking about the 3700 (or 2700) also. Would do a trade-in. That being said, I shot a low-budget documentary last month using 2 EX3s (Sony). Looked very VERY good, I have to say, even though it is GOP, has rolling shutter and is not AVC Intra, etc. and does not have the Panasonic "look." It didn't look close to the 2700 but it's an $8,000 camera after all.

Here is my question. Is the Sony EX 350, the 3/4" Sony camera, something to consider instead of the Panasonic 2700? With the trade-in they are about the same price. I have owned both Panny and Sony over the years. My use would be more documentaries, but i would still like to have that "high budget" look.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Mark Hayes


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Jeff Regan
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 21, 2010 at 6:58:29 am

I saw the 350 briefly at a trade show. Very good low light, low noise, full raster 1080, low power consumption, price includes low-end lens. However, it is CMOS, limited record capacity compared to 5-card P2 camera, only one HD SDI output(has HDMI though). Main issue for me would be the codec. Not sure if 2/3" CMOS is worth 2X the cost of an EX3 when the codec remains the same. $18,900 is too much money for an 8-bit, 4:2:0, Long GOP, low bit rate codec, IMO. The 2700 at $19,950 trade-in plus viewfinder is still compelling to me a year after we bought ours.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com


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Robin Probyn
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 21, 2010 at 11:50:23 am

Hi Mark

Yes if your making your own films,and they sell or do whatever they are meant to to make yourself a living I would go for the 2700 for sure.. a step up from the Sony you mention for sure.. if the price is the same with trade in..



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Mark Hayes
Re: Varicam 2700/3700
on Aug 23, 2010 at 7:06:52 pm

Thanks for the comments Jeff and Robin,

Here is a trailer from the project I am working on done on the EX3.

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/13289143_hZLGz#966041702_izqmu

I saw the 2700 finished product on the new Criterion Edition of Wes Anderson and Owen Wilson's "Bottle Rocket." There in an "extra" called the "Making of Bottle Rocket" and Barry Braverman used the 2700. Looked excellent -- way better than the EX3 but EX3 is pretty good and easy o travel with etc.

How long before Panasonic changes the 2700, I wonder. Guess I can ask Jan Critt. at DV EXpo next month. She may smack me in the head.

Mark

Mark Hayes


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