FORUMS: list search recent posts

Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???

COW Forums : Panasonic Cameras

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
P2 Shooter
Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???
on Feb 17, 2010 at 1:38:08 am

I'm trying to figure out if there is a consensus of which codec is better? Panasonic AVCIntra100, DVCPro100 or the Canon 5D Mark II's H.264(knowing that its going to get converted into ProRes???

I have an upcoming Doc that I'm deciding on using our Canon 5D Mark II, Our HPX500 with a Letus and Primes, or possibly investing in the Panasonic HPX3700 and using the adapter and primes.

I'm pretty sure the size and weight of all the adapters and glass will make either Panasonic camera just as combersome and frustrating as all the peripheral add ons and work flow addaptations which make the Canon 5D Mark II a working option. I'm also sure I can make a pretty similar looking image with either Panasonic camera and the adapters and primes as I can with the Canon(apart from dynamic range).

But my real question is for a doc going to TV and maybe a short indy theatrical run, which codec or more to the point I guess, which camera would people want to work with? This question is really trying to get at which entire workflow is going to make a better final product if all else is equal.

Nice thing about any of these 3 choices other than the Panasonic 3700 is that I wouldn't have to buy anything else... Don't let that sway your input! Just give me your hard turthful, hopefully emperically backed up, opinion.

Thanks


Return to posts index

Jeff Regan
Re: Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???
on Feb 17, 2010 at 2:08:28 am

Canon codec runs at around 44Mbps, is 8-bit, Long GOP, 4:2:0, I believe. AVC-Intra 100 isI'd choo around 40-100Mbps, depending on resolution and frame rate, 10-bit, I-Frame, 4:2:2. ProRes is 10-bit, 4:2:2, this matches AVC-Intra 100 specs, whereas if you shoot 8-bit, 4:2:0, you can't recover the data that was not recorded originally.

Additionally, the 3700 has more latitude, doesn't suffer from rolling shutter artifacts or aliasing or moire to the level of a 5D. If you use a 35mm DOF adapter such as P+S Pro35 or Letus B4 Relay Lens and Ultimate, you will have an Academy frame. The 5D is full frame 35, so it's DOF is more shallow, meaning you really want to shoot at f4.0-5.6.

The 3700 will give you far more control over the image via menu line items, such as Film-Rec Gamma and matrix and color correction, detail level, knee, black stretch, etc. It also has three HD SDI outputs for monitoring, orientable viewfinder, good audio control with four channels, designed for hand held use, etc.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???
on Feb 17, 2010 at 2:17:00 am

Yeah- these are cameras at way opposite ends of the spectrum if you're asking about codec quality. The Canon is a great bargain for what you get and gives you that shallow DOF look very easily but is nowhere near the Varicam's class (or price).

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Visit my Editors Blog- Tips and Gear for Editors.


Return to posts index


P2 Shooter
Re: Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???
on Feb 17, 2010 at 6:19:11 pm

So if the 3700 is out of the equation due to cost would you rather shoot a TV bound doc with a DVCpro100 HPX500 and letus rig or a canon 5d?


Return to posts index


cowcowcowcow
Jeff Regan
Re: Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???
on Feb 18, 2010 at 1:07:11 am

I would think it would depend on the acquisition specs of the broadcast or cable entity, how much low light shooting there is, how much movement of talent and camera movement. Some cable networks don't allow VDSLR to be used for more than a small percentage of a program, won't allow camera movement.

5D Mk 2 has a full frame 35mm sensor, which means a VERY shallow DOF, requiring you shoot f4.0-5.6. A Pro35 or Letus is Academy framing, so DOF not as shallow(but still requires an AC for talent movement). HPX500 with Pro35 or Letus B4/Ultimate should still be around an ASA 400, so not too bad(depends on frame rate, gamma, resolution, taking lenses). 5D Mk 2 has rolling shutter artifacts, aliasing and moire artifacts vs. 500 CCD's which are pretty free of artifacts.

DVCPRO HD will offer 4:2:2, I-Frame, 24P, no rendering time, no intermediate codec. 5D would require ProRes for FCP, that's a lot of transcode time, big files. 5D Mk 2 does not do 24P yet.

If I was shooting a lot of handheld, I'd prefer the ENG camera form factor over the VDSLR form factor. 500 viewfinder isn't too great for critical focus, though.

I know the 500/Letus B4 relay lens/Ultimate DOF adapter works well together, but you won't be low profile with the large camera/lens size. Audio won't require double system with the 500, P2 workflow is simpler and the camera can shoot a long time non-stop with 4)P2 cards. But, you can't beat the 5D price--except with 7D or Rebel T2 or GH1.

Jeff Regan
http://www.ssv.com

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com


Return to posts index

John Kabasakalis
Re: Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???
on Feb 19, 2010 at 3:30:05 am

1)Codec... the big cameras win.
2)A doc? ... depends on the kind of doc. I own a Panasonic HDX 900/Ikegami V-59/Canon 5D/Panasonic Lumix GH-1. I love big sensors, fast lenses, & small form factors. I am thrilled when producers ask for my HDSLR instead of one of the big boys. I feel like a photographer again and not a sherpa.
3) In my last 5 HDSLR shoots only one interview was shot at F4.5 All the others were F1.2 to F2.8
4) We download cards during the shoot. Actually the laptop does it while I continue shooting. Not an issue.
5) One Caveat: You really need to spend lots of time learning HDSLRs. A couple of months of preparation would be advised




Return to posts index


Jeff Regan
Re: Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???
on Feb 19, 2010 at 4:47:15 pm

John,

Yes, shooting with a 5D at wide open or close to it is fine, as long as:

a. talent does not move
b. camera does not move

This assumes a longer focal length lens, like an 85mm.

How do you like shooting hand held with the 5D, or following moving subjects?

The best thing about my Letus Ultimate 35mm DOF adapters is that I can take them off of my video cameras.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com



Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???
on Feb 23, 2010 at 3:20:51 am

The 5D/7Ds are so cheap compared to a Varicam why do you have to choose? Take the big camera for your a-camera and shoot the Canon when you need to run and gun go someplace the big cameras can't go.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Visit my Editors Blog- Tips and Gear for Editors.


Return to posts index

Ethan Sigman
Re: Which codec is better? Panasonic HPX3700 or the Canon 5D Mark II???
on Feb 26, 2010 at 5:58:52 pm

Im with noah. roll them both. i have a 2700, 200a, and 5dmkii. they are all good at different things. i want them all and keep them all because they are all good at different times. quite simply, for doc, audio IS the story. you need to be heavily resourced in audio. you might consider separate audio with 500 anyway because there is so much opportunity for audio over scenics and b-roll but you would need a dedicated audio guy with an extra 2-4kish piece of gear to record all your audio separately if you worked with the 5d only. plus you create sync logistics to manage, which isn't too bad, but is more work. you could get away with less labor if you pushed as much audio to the 500 as possible. you need a pretty nice piece of audio gear if you want 4 channels with timecode, so the 5d is deceptively cheap to shoot on in that sense. pushing your audio workload to the 500 and using the 5d as a second/special circumstance cam makes most sense.

the simple answer is the 3700/5d but since this is really a 2 cam question, it seems the answer is to carry a flyweight tripod to drop the 5d on and shoot two cam as often as sensible, sending audio to the 500. shoot time lapse, low light, tabletop, occasional sideways dolly moves (no focus changes needed) on the 5d... which will allow the 5d to come in at a reasonable % of program if you shoot the rest on the 500.

http://www.EZSproductions.com
http://www.VaricamUser.com
http://www.ProductionMeeting.com/profile/EthanSigman


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2019 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]