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10 BIT HD-SDI Output?

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Charles Binn
10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 17, 2009 at 8:08:36 am

I want to connect an external hard disk recorder to my Varicam. Will I get a 8 or 10 BIT signal from the HD-SDI output?
If the signal is 10 BIT will I get really more chroma information than from 8 BIT DVCPRO HD tape?

Thanks
Charles





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Chris Bell
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 17, 2009 at 4:39:50 pm

What are you attaching to record from the Varicam?



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Charles Binn
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 17, 2009 at 5:05:33 pm

As far as I know there are several products that could be mounted on the Varicam.
At the moment I prefer the Elite HD recorder from ffv. This hard disc recorder samples with 10 BIT.

Thanks for answering
Charles






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gary adcock
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 18, 2009 at 2:48:27 pm

[Charles Binn] "At the moment I prefer the Elite HD recorder from ffv. This hard disc recorder samples with 10 BIT. "

are you sure?
According to the J2K specs a special encoding is required to achieve greater than 8bits in that format and it my understanding that cannot be done at the 100 Mbps compression level this encoder uses.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Charles Binn
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 18, 2009 at 5:24:57 pm

I will check it and call the company.

But is the Varicam HD-SDI output 10 or 8 BIT? Better as on tape?

Charles




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Chris Bell
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 18, 2009 at 6:34:51 pm

I checked out that product. Here would be my concerns:

1) The recorder is triggered by a remote cable which uses the camera's tally light. I am not sure I would stake my reputation on such a method.

2) It is not clear if the hard drive records the user bits, so I am unsure if 24p or variable frame rate would be an option. Not sure how to remove redundant frames in J2K format.

3) The hard disk is a spinning drive, which does not like lateral movement or vibration. Solid state would be the solution, but the drives are very expensive.

I like the concept behind this product, but I wonder how Varicam friendly it is. Panasonic is also offering a P2 recorder which will mount on the back of a camera. It's not as small, though.



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Charles Binn
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 18, 2009 at 7:20:47 pm

Chris, you wrote

1) The recorder is triggered by a remote cable which uses the camera's tally light. I am not sure I would stake my reputation on such a method.

As far as I know you could use any trigger to start/stop. Just put a small switch on your remote (lens) control.


2) It is not clear if the hard drive records the user bits, so I am unsure if 24p or variable frame rate would be an option. Not sure how to remove redundant frames in J2K format.
I don't know. We have to find out!

3) The hard disk is a spinning drive, which does not like lateral movement or vibration. Solid state would be the solution, but the drives are very expensive.

I am using 2,5 inch drives for a long time. They are quite tough! You could buy also drives with G-force protection. And as you wrote you could use also a 2,5 inch solid state drive. 120 GB (!!!) for $ 300. That's better than P2.
If the Elite HD could store the redundant frame information it would give the old Varicam a new life.





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Chris Bell
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 18, 2009 at 8:04:17 pm

It's amazing how quickly the Varicam is becoming old.

I would only consider such a device if it could reliably record the user bits, and not degrade the image. It would have to have a more integrated method of trigging.... running a switch or cable anywhere is a no-go for me.






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gary adcock
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 19, 2009 at 3:25:07 pm

[Chris Bell] "I would only consider such a device if it could reliably record the user bits, and not degrade the image. "

Chris,

the J2K codec (@100 Mbps) does not support the storage or transport of RP188 data stream used in the flagging functions.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Chris Bell
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 19, 2009 at 6:33:16 pm

That would be a deal-killer for me. May be OK for folks strictly shooting 60p.





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john sharaf
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 18, 2009 at 7:25:17 pm

HD-SDI output is 10 bit on main output spiggot



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Rajesh Lad
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 20, 2009 at 2:37:06 am

Panasonic makes the best product just for this purpose. It is called P2 Mobile it is six card recorder if you have 64GB cards rented or purchased then you get more then six and half hour of HD recording using AVC-I 100 codec. AVC-I is 10 bit codec and it can be triggerd by camera using a rec trigger from the HD SDI cable.
So connect your camera HDSDI out to P2 Mobile hit rec trigger on the camera and P2 mobile also record with it. Also if you can remove the 3:2 pull down and record the native 24 frames.
Please check the website
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId...

If P2 Mobile is out of your budget then there is another device we just announced called P2 Portable AG-HPG20. It is also available with the bracket to mount this directly behind the battery on the camera. It has two slots and will trigger from the Varicam.
Please check this out
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId...



Thank you
Panasonic
Sales Support Engineering
Rajesh Lad






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Charles Binn
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Feb 23, 2009 at 10:51:24 am

Thank you Rajesh,

one more question. Will the AG-HPG20 also remove the not tagged frames from 720/25p over 60p? If it removes the not tagged frames what will be stored? 720/25p?

Thanks
Charles



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Rajesh Lad
Re: 10 BIT HD-SDI Output?
on Mar 25, 2009 at 3:34:36 am

No it does not remove the tag frame you have to use P2 mobile for it.

Thank you
Rajesh Lad
panasonic


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