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Sergio Deustua
Varicam 720p25
on Feb 6, 2008 at 2:04:34 pm

I´m trying hard to capture 720p25 material shooted in Varicam at 25fps using the 1200 deck, throug Blacmagic Multibridge into FCP 6.0.2, but with no resoults at all. A couple of guys in the forums said that this is posible...

What Im doing is:

Option 1: Deck set to 25 HD frequency, SDI conection, "Blackmagic HDTV 720 p 25 Varicam" easy set up in FCP. Doesn´t work.

Option 2: Deck set to 59/94 frequency, PB format AUTO, SDI conection, "Blackmagic HDTV 720 p 25 Varicam" easy set up in FCP. Doesn´t work.

What am I missing?, Is it really posible to capture 720p25 material from Varicam?

Thanks again.



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mark delbridge
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 6, 2008 at 2:40:13 pm

I have just finished working with 2 different clients with this issue.

I'm afraid the only solution was to use an AJA Kona. It removes the duplicate frames on injest and allows editing a 25fps with the native Panasonic compression.

There are a few Varicam options but we used the 720p25 DVCPRO HD Varicam easy setup. Basically, it just works.

You can then output either down to SD or up-convert (assuming you use a Kona 2/3) to 1080.

My advice would be get it to a Sony Digi format ASAP!

Damn all those Panasonic workflow disasters...



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Sergio Deustua
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 6, 2008 at 4:36:54 pm

So my problem is the Blckmgc Multibriddge then?



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mark delbridge
720p 25 Varicam
on Feb 6, 2008 at 4:56:32 pm

To be totally honest I've had nothing but problems with Black Magic hardware. I'm not saying they are crap, but my personal experience leads me to believe that the extra money for AJA hardware is money well spent.

Not convinced by the IoHD yet though, which incidently doesn't currently have support for 720p 25 Varicam - only 23.98...

On another note - the 25p Easy setup does not rely on on-speed 25 over 60 material. It will do any varicam rates and 'convert' them to 25 fps



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mark delbridge
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 6, 2008 at 5:14:44 pm


To be totally honest I've had nothing but problems with Black Magic hardware. I'm not saying they are crap, but my personal experience leads me to believe that the extra money for AJA hardware is money well spent.

Just borrow or hire one for the injest.

Not convinced by the IoHD yet though, which incidently doesn't currently have support for 720p 25 Varicam - only 23.98...

On another note - the 25p Easy setup does not rely on on-speed 25 over 60 material. It will do any varicam rates and 'convert' them to 25 fps



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mark delbridge
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 6, 2008 at 5:31:05 pm

BTW

Varicam material always runs at 60fps, so you must use the 59/60 setting - also the HD out must not be set to up-rez to 1080. The AJA control panel needs to see a 720p 59.94 input. Well mine does anyway. And it works.

Failing that, you may have to digitize over firewire using the native Apple DVCPROHD 720p60 preset and then apply the free Panasonic Frame rate converter plug-in to convert the digitized material. I'm pretty sure you will be stuck in an NTSC timebase for editing though
...



Much though I admire Panasonic for trying to rival the giants and buck the trend by doing things 'thier way' - they present end users with a really frustrating task in post - that can test budgets, deadlines and patience to the absolute limit...

You have my condolences.



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gary adcock
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 6, 2008 at 10:42:37 pm

Sergio


I have worked with 25p material from varicam for at least 5 years, I have not ran into the issues stated - however I only use Kona Cards - and have been able to work with 720p25 since FCP 5.04

can you import using the FW connection?
The DVCPROHD 720p25 easy set up should allow you to capture the content directly using FW/

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Carsten Orlt
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 6, 2008 at 11:26:15 pm

There is NO WAY to capture 720p25/60 via Firewire in FCP. It can't be done. FCP simply doesn't support the 60Hz system frequency (which is the required setting on the Varicam to record 25fps).


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gary adcock
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 7, 2008 at 5:31:23 pm

[Carsten Orlt] "There is NO WAY to capture 720p25/60 via Firewire in FCP. It can't be done. FCP simply doesn't support the 60Hz system frequency (which is the required setting on the Varicam to record 25fps). "

thats because the setting in FCP needs 720p50 for capture when the camera is set to 60hrz recording instead of the 59.94 for the NTSC world.

the link to the A&A website covers all of this.





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Carsten Orlt
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 7, 2008 at 5:40:36 am

I don't have a blackmagic card, but I have the ioHD
I do not have a 1200 in house, but hire it when needed.
So the following is my educated guess, and you need to verify it with your equipment!!!

You can't capture 720p25 with the blackmagic hardware because the BM hardware can't drop frames from the Varicam stream on the fly. So it can only capture the full 720p60. You can't convert this via the Final Cut frame converter function, because it only accepts 59.94. But you can only shoot 720p25 with the Varicam when you set the camera to 60Hz NOT 59.94.

Now if you have the Aja hardware you can theoretically (Walter&Gary said this, but I can't test it until I have the VTR here) capture the 25 Fps when you use the 720p60 Varicam input of a Kona or ioHD. This will drop the duplicated frames and capture only the 25 active frames. Because this only works via the 60Hz setting of the Kona/ioHD my guess is that it will cause problems with the timecode if you are working in the 50Hz world (Pal countries). And I don't know what happens if you drop this captured clip into a 720p50 sequence?

You can't capture 720p25 via firewire because FCP only accepts DVCProHD at 59.94 over firewire, But to shoot 25p the Varicam has to be set to 60 Hz.

But if you, as you said, use the conversion function of the 1200 and set it to the 25HD mode the VTR will convert the 25 Fps straight into the 50Hz world. But in this mode it only outputs 1080psf25, NOT 720p. Not sure why Panasonic did it this way, but they did (same for the 1400 by the way).

These are basically your options and you have to decide which is the best way to go.

I certainly have another look at the possibility to capture via the 720p60 Varicam setting in my ioHD to see what I can get. Basically I'm happy to use the 1080i25 format because it is my final mastering format, but because 720 is so much smaller and easier to handle for the compi I still like to check if it is workable...

Hope that helps
carsten


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Michael Tauber
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 7, 2008 at 9:45:10 am

Google for

"Panasonic Varicam 720p25 support in Final Cut Pro"

and click on the first hit.



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gary adcock
Re: Varicam 720p25
on Feb 7, 2008 at 5:23:42 pm

[Carsten Orlt] "Now if you have the Aja hardware you can theoretically (Walter&Gary said this, but I can't test it until I have the VTR here) capture the 25 Fps when you use the 720p60 Varicam input of a Kona or ioHD"

the process for any and all VFR captures on kona is documented in my article on the IoHD below in my sig file.





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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