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Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings

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Samuel Frazier
Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 20, 2012 at 5:13:25 am

I've spent hours upon hours upon hours trying to get definitive answers to this. Really have tried to do my homework and have looked everywhere but am getting conflicting info. I shot on a DVX100b at 30p, captured in FCP7 at DV NTSC 48 Hz, then edited my film (a short documentary) on an Uncompressed 480p30 sequence. Also made a 480p30 ProRes sequence. ProRes and Uncompressed titles look so much better! Progressive titles seem to help a lot too. But, I was wondering if I did this right. Almost everyone seems to say capture at the standard DV NTSC preset (which would be 60i), but the experts seem divided on the edit sequence. Some say 60i, other 30p, others say 30p but immediately after you capture, go to your Browser and change the captured clips field dominance to None. The picture is locked now, so it's a bit too late to do it immediately.

So, what's the correct way to do this? Should I just change the captured clips field dominance to None? Am definitely concerned about losing half my resolution as heard this can happen if the fields are incorrectly set. Also, don't know if it matters, but:

1- the film has a number of sorta Ken Burns like still picture movements

2- I'm going to need to edit sections of this into a 1080p24 ProRes timeline. The film was a doc of a fun 1st annual event which I never thought would be a success on the festival circuit. But, it has been, and I shot the 2nd annual event on a Canon D60 at 1080p24.

Thanks for any help!


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 22, 2012 at 4:42:28 pm

[Samuel Frazier] " Some say 60i, other 30p, others say 30p but immediately after you capture, go to your Browser and change the captured clips field dominance to None. The picture is locked now, so it's a bit too late to do it immediately."

In terms of the VIDEO footage, you'll be okay. ALL DV footage, whether shot progressive or interlaced, contain two fields.




[Samuel Frazier] "1- the film has a number of sorta Ken Burns like still picture movements"

DO NOT DO THESE ANIMATIONS IN FCP! The motion of the moves on the stills won't match the motion of the progressive-scan footage. Find someone with After Effects who can do them and render progressive, i.e. a field order of None.




[Samuel Frazier] "2- I'm going to need to edit sections of this into a 1080p24 ProRes timeline. "

You're going to need two pieces of software: Instant HD (Red Giant), which can help reduce the god-awful look that comes from up-rezzing this footage. Then you'll need frame rate conversion software like Twixtor to do the frame rate conversion. 29.97 footage in a 23.976 timeline will look horrible.

Apple's Compressor can also do the frame rate conversion, but the image quality is less than Twixtor's... and your SD footage is going to look very bad in comparison to the HD stuff to begin with.

Sorry you couldn't known this earlier. That's life.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Samuel Frazier
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 22, 2012 at 5:58:14 pm

Thank you Dave! I've been reading your posts here a post in trying to re-educate myself. Man, you really know your stuff. I appreciate it.

Ok, I'm just going to just adjust the setting in the Browser to "fields order: none" and stop worrying so much about that.

Regarding #1: I've done most of the work in a 30p (Fields order: none) sequence. Used both Uncompressed 8bit and ProRes 422. Is that still going to create problems with matching the motion of the progressive-scan footage? Sorry, haven't heard of this and sounds like I've got more learning to do. Hopefully not AE as well!

Regarding #2: Was thinking of doing the process of making a copy of the movie, conforming in Cinema Tools to 24p, then speeding the footage back up in Twixtor (or Compressor) as Twixtor recommends. Am looking at Instant HD, BCC uprez, and Photozoom Pro 4 to upres. May be able to get a friend to do it w/ two Kona 3 cards. Any thoughts on which order to do things, i.e. frame rate change first then upres or upres then frame rate change?

Thanks again!


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 22, 2012 at 7:17:16 pm

[Samuel Frazier] " I've done most of the work in a 30p (Fields order: none) sequence. Used both Uncompressed 8bit and ProRes 422. Is that still going to create problems with matching the motion of the progressive-scan footage?"

The Ken Burns-style trick out to work with filed order: None. You can run a test with any old picture to confirm.

If you have any sync sound in the SD-resolution timeline, or if timing silent footage to other audio is crucial, you have no choice: you have to to a frame rate conversion. You can't conform. And since you would go from progressive-scan to progressive-scan, it might be a tough job to get it looking good.
This ain't going to be a cakewalk.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Samuel Frazier
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 22, 2012 at 8:22:11 pm

Thank you again. About #1, will definitely test it. What exactly am I looking for? I know when I began editing (on a sequence with field orders, not progressive), there was choppy motion and stair-stepping on the edges. If that's it, yeah, it was terrible. Was one of the reason I moved it to progressive.

#2 It's definitely a messy process. Twixtor explains the process using Cinema Tools and getting the sync right here:
http://help.revisionfx.com/tutorial/47/

There's also a Compressor tutorial that's all about how to do it w/ frame accuracy:
http://philipbloom.net/2009/05/30/how-to-convert-canon-5dmk2-footage-from-3...

A few steps with each, but fairly straightforward. I'll have to test and get back to you about my results.

The fun thing is, this is the majority of prep of my old files, but not all. I also have iPhone 4 (720p30) Kodak PlaySport (720p60) and another Playsport at 1080p30. All the Playsport stuff has horrible shitter roll to deal with as well.

So, I've got a lot of work!!



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Noah Kadner
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 23, 2012 at 12:29:32 am

It's an oldie but a goodie-

http://www.callboxlive.com/products/24p-digital-post-production-with-final-...

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Panasonic AC160/130.


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Samuel Frazier
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 23, 2012 at 12:39:20 am

Thank you for that. I did find it some time ago. Looks like a great product and very affordable at the price. But, it seems to deal more with 24p and how to handle it whereas I'm trying to figure out 30p upresing, and getting to 24p. Once I'm to 24p, I should be good to go.



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Noah Kadner
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 24, 2012 at 10:31:14 pm

I do actually cover field issues on that tutorial and how they relate to your FCP sequence settings. The bottom line is it does not matter much what your clips are set to- that cannot be 'undone' All that matters with sequence settings is for new renders like effects/transitions etc. If you set your timeline to none- the renders will match your clips. If you don't- new renders will show interlaced fields and will not match. But the original material will remain unchanged.

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Panasonic AC160/130.


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Samuel Frazier
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 25, 2012 at 4:22:33 pm

Thank you for setting me straight. And sorry about not seeing the part you mentioned in the training. You've convinced me. It looks great and I'm going to buy it. I really need a refresher!!

Thanks again!



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Samuel Frazier
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 25, 2012 at 4:49:16 pm

So, I did some tests as I mentioned, and have found:

Using Compressor to do the speed change results in a sort of ghostly frame every so often. So, not terribly desirable. Perhaps there's a way to tweak the settings, but I followed the tutorial w/ their settings, and this is what I got.

I also tried Boris Red to the speed up. Velocity Remap looked sort of okay, but was choppy. Optical Flow really seemed to do the job though. The problem is, I doubt it's frame accurate as it doesn't match the original 30p footage. Not sure how to make it frame accurate. Perhaps my math was off, b/c I speeding up the conformed footage 125.02%. Figured the difference b/t 23.976 & 29.975 is 25.025025%, so went with that. This works for this particular clip b/c it's a race and no sync sound dialog. Hopefully Twixtor will have the same or better results and be able to sync.



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Noah Kadner
Re: Confused about DVX100 Capture/ Edit settings
on May 26, 2012 at 1:13:27 am

Twixtor is what you want if you don't have access to a 60fps or higher frame rate camera.

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Panasonic AC160/130.


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