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AF100 Audio Sync with Ki Pro Mini

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Tom Dunn
AF100 Audio Sync with Ki Pro Mini
on May 13, 2011 at 6:42:57 am

I am doing a 2 camera shoot on the AF100, recording via SDI out to a Ki Pro Mini. Audio is coming into the KI Pro Mini as analog audio from a Sound Devices mixer. When I bring the footage into FCP, or Sound Track Pro, or just view the raw Quicktime files, the audio is 3 frames, and occasionally as much as 6 frames, ahead of the picture. I spoke with AJA tech support today and they actually set up a Ki Pro Mini the same way (although I am not sure if they used an AF100), and reported that their sound was frame accurate. Has anyone experienced this also?

Tom Dunn
Director Digital Media Production
JP Catholic University
San Diego, CA


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Uli Plank
Re: AF100 Audio Sync with Ki Pro Mini
on May 13, 2011 at 8:41:34 am

It's in sync here. How do you monitor? Is it in sync when playing off the Ki Pro?

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Tom Dunn
Re: AF100 Audio Sync with Ki Pro Mini
on May 13, 2011 at 3:02:44 pm

We are shooting 2 cameras recording to 2 Ki Pro Minis. We are slating all the takes with a clapper. I have viewed the footage straight off the Ki Pro via SDI, brought it into Final Cut, brought it into Soundtrack Pro, and viewed the native QT files after transferring, and they are out of sync in all of these instances.

Tom Dunn
Director Digital Media Production
JP Catholic University
San Diego, CA


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AJA Sales Department
Re: AF100 Audio Sync with Ki Pro Mini
on May 13, 2011 at 11:40:02 pm

The AJA Technical Support department has called you back regarding this matter and left you a voicemail. In addition to the original test that was performed, where no a/v sync issue was seen from a known synchronized SDI/analog audio source, AJA Technical Support also tested using our in-house Panasonic AG-AF100 camera. The results were as follows:

The audio discrepancy you are seeing may be related to a processing delay from the camera's SDI output when compared to an analog audio source. This was tested using sync pops (color bars for visual and 1kHz tone for audio) one frame every one second for several minutes. The AG-AF100's SDI output was connected to the Ki Pro Mini SDI input for video and a balanced analog audio signal from the same know synchronized source for the analog audio was sent directly to the Ki Pro Mini via balanced XLR analog audio input. The AG-AF100 was then pointed at this known synchronized audio/video so that the recorded video "pops" could be compared with the audio "pops." The result was that the video was three frames later than the audio in the recording that was produced, much like what you have described.

In a second test, the AJA Technical Support department routed the analog audio to the AG-AF100 and then used the SDI out of the camera with embedded audio in addition to video. By using this signal path, the audio was found to be in sync. So, it would see that the camera has some processing delay for video and analog audio fed to the camera is compensated so that it is timed up to match the video output of the camera. Since this is the case, we would recommend that you route your analog audio from your mixer into the balanced analog XLR inputs on the AG-AF100 and the use the SDI video and audio from the camera to feed the Ki Pro Mini. This should not have any adverse effect on the quality of your audio.

Please note that not all cameras operate in this fashion; in many cases there is little - if any -delay in the output from a camera when compared to what the sensor was recording. Again, AJA Technical Support has tried to replicate your situation as accurately as possible to provide this information; their initial test was with a known synchronized audio/video source, but not the camera in question, which is why they could not replicate the behavior. Please feel free to contact them for additional clarification or assistance, but AJA hopes that this information will be helpful resolving your situation.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Tom Dunn
Re: AF100 Audio Sync with Ki Pro Mini
on May 14, 2011 at 12:24:25 am

Thanks so much for going to the effort to run these tests using the same camera source. We ran this similar test about an hour ago bringing audio into the camera and then sending both audio and video via SDI to the Ki Pro Mini and got synced audio. This will be our new camera/sound configuration.

Once again, thanks for the speedy support.

Tom Dunn
Director Digital Media Production
JP Catholic University
San Diego, CA


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Uli Plank
Re: AF100 Audio Sync with Ki Pro Mini
on May 14, 2011 at 9:03:37 am

This camera does a lot of processing in video, like scaling (it has a photographic sensor) and even lens corrections. So, I think AJA is right and it's not their fault.

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Will Salley
Re: AF100 Audio Sync with Ki Pro Mini
on Jun 2, 2011 at 3:55:05 am

Many of the Panasonic cameras, especially the smaller prosumer models, will have a processing delay of around 150ms. It's easy to hear when you have headphones plugged into the camera and listen to dialog E/E. You can also test it by shooting a timecode slate with TC fed by the camera and observing the offset when in playback pause. It's given me fits for years as a sound recordist, but I've learned to expect it and know how to workaround.

Mac Pro 2x2.8 Quadcore - 10.6.3 - QT 7.6.3 - 22 GB RAM - nvidia8800GT - SATA internal & external storage - Blackmagic Multibridge Pro - Open GL 1.5.10 - Wacom Intous2 tablet - AJA io
SONY XDCAM EX3 - Letus Elite - FC7.0.2 - CS4 Prod Prem.


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jose antonio aguilar
Re: AF100 Audio Sync with Ki Pro Mini
on Jun 3, 2011 at 11:51:40 pm

Hi, Before I ask something, I give you my apologize because I'm not sure that here you can help me, I'm begginer using a AJA ki pro, and I have a cuestion about the use of this amazing device:

can the AJA KI pro de-embed audio?


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